Attaching cylinders to a wing

[Peter69_56]

---------- Post Merged at 04:51 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 04:35 AM ----------

yes I have seen those and am having problems finding someone who stocks them over here.

I have noticed on the backplates that there seem to be additional slots cut which are not for the harness, but appear to be for strapping cylinders to the backplate, however there is no access to them due to the wing material being there. I didnt think the manufacturer would want anyone hacking through the wing material to access them so it all didnt make any sense.

I appreciate you response in being the first person to actually try and answer my question I originally asked. I know everyone is trying to give me help, however I am a little frustrated that I am given information on how to set the system up in other configurations which are not suitable given the circumstances. If I wanted to be lazy and cheap I could just use my existing BCD with a 15 litre cylinder, an 11 litre sling and a 3 litre pony with a stage cylinder below the boat, or near the shore at 6m. (As I am sure you are all aware) for a number of good reasons its not the right thing to do, but due to the travel issues, I am trying to set up in the best/safest way possible and still be able to afford to travel and dive.

And yes the dive instructor said the way to dive he recommends is twin manifolded as per TDI training. Thats what he teaches and will be setting me up for on the dive days.

 

[parzdiver]

The slots in the backplate are used for single tank attachement, rather than doubles. Many of the single tank wings will have slots that match with the backplate slots. However, there is no stable way to connect doubles with those slots. I think I saw a backplate design that had slots specifically for attaching doubles with cambands, but that was a specialized plate.

 

[mathauck0814]

Just rent when you get to Truk. First link when googling "Truk Tech Diving" Welcome To Truk Stop Hotel and Dive Center's Exclusive Website. Truk Stop Hotel and Dive Center | Truk Lagoon Dive Center, truk lagoon diving, truk stop hotel, truk stop, truk stop hotel chuuk, chuuk lagoon diving, truk lagoon, truk lagoon tours, tru:

We have single and double aluminum 80's (11L) cylinders, many with convertible valves for DIN or YOKE use. We have sets of doubles with the industry standard manifolds and bands (11" center to center), some aluminum 100 cu. ft tanks plus 13 cu.ft (2 liter) and 19 cu. ft (3 liter). cylinders for rebreathers.

 

[Peter69_56]

Ok thanks for that, at least I now understand how some are set up.

I saw a backplate "Problue BCD Backplate - Aluminium" that seemed to have slots for twins and cambands, but I guess if that was used on the wing I have purchased it would mean cutting slots as it appears from the photos that the T50 only has 2 bolt holes, maybe that back plate wouldnt fit the wing anyway. This probably means I have to attach an adapter plate or spacer blocks that would allow camberbands to be used. Only other choice with that wing would be SS bands and bolt them. Least I know some of the potential issues, so I guess I wait and see what I have when it turns up and then go chat with the instructor next training day.

Appreciate yout comments.

 

[decompression]

I hope you are getting the answers you're looking for. As a TDI instructor, I have a concern about you using a manifold when at home and then independent doubles for your travel dives. The independent doubles for travelling is unfortunately a necessary evil that many of us live with, althought the techniques for diving I/D takes practise to develop the skills necessary to safely compete a dive while handling task loading and perhaps an emergency event. As suggested sidemount configuration could be an option. Although I understand you've taken this course to enable yourself to dive truk (an amazing place to dive), unless you are trained and practise diving I/D you may be exposing yourself to unnecessary risk. I know weight is a big concern as I travel a lot myself, but I hope you can find a solution to this issue through; careful packing, practising on I/D or further training. Best of luck and enjoy all the "Maru's".

 

[Peter69_56]

Ok dint realise that Truk had them. At the time we went, I was informed that I only had a choice of singles or twin independants and I was only told this days before we went via email. I was not happy and very concerned we were going to a remote area and I was not set up for the diving required. Went with just my normal gear (BCD and standard regulator set), but took a spare reg set as well. When I got there I took a 15 litre cylinder and 11 litre sling. To say I was not happy about being lead down the garden path doesnt even get close to truely stating how I felt at the time. I had to make up a dive plan based on my experience, dive safelyand knowledge, as well as not create additional risk for others. My wife and I worked out our own dive plan and we dived that regardless of everyone else to ensure our safety and reduce the risk to us as well as others. All the others were just worrying about themselves and concerned that those two jerks (us) on singles would shorten their dive time and didnt give a monkies uncle about anything else. With our dive plan and strategy we did nearly every dive just using gas from the 15 litre with enough reserve in the sling to get us back to the surface and still have the deco gas as an emergency reserve if required. We told everyone we would dive our own plan and let them all go and do what they wanted as they all had twins so we wouldn't cause them to lose dive time. I have my personal opinions about how the trip was organised but I will keep those thoughts with myself.

I know at Coolidge they said they only have 11 litre singles and some 8 litre slings so I am somewhat screwed there. I either go for twin independant or single and sling.

Yes I do appreciate some of the issues ID does create (although I probably don't appreciate all of them at this stage). I was driven down this path originally by a poorly organised tour and total lack of information. I am very much aware of the risk of losing 50% or more if you breath down one cylinder then lose the other cylinder, and where that can get you. Also appreciate the issue of being unbalanced if breathing down one cylinder only.

I said to my wife we would not do deco diving again until we had proper training, I hate being in a situation (that could have been avoided by training or information) and not being prepared. Funnily enough all the other divers got their deco and independant twin training, however because we wernt in the click (group), and we were leaving 6 weeks earlier on the start of our dive holiday they didnt bother with us (which I can understand from a training point of view) but they could have fully informed us much earlier and given us a proper holiday and dive brief so we could have sorted something. Instead we were left to our own devices with a simple email "Are you both diving singles or doubles". The only other thing they did (to cover their arse) was to tell the guide that he had 2 "inexperienced divers" he had to look after (giving the impression we only had a few dives under our belt). I found that very offensive. Both my wife and I had more dives (in cold dirty water) than nearly all of the other divers except maybe the 4 instructors in the group. The only other difference being they all had some (I believe) "In pool training on twins and some simple deco theory. That they all managed to suck through twin cylinders whilst we always managed on a single 15 litre with our reserve intact demonstrated to who had the the real issues, and who was who in the zoo. The guide told me the story after 2 days and said you guys are not a problem in any way. I wont mention what he said about the tour leader but lets just say all the dive staff were very NOT impressed.

So when I am in that situation I fall back to my safety position and that is "I assume I am alone and thus depend on myself and my buddy" as we trust each other implicitly. Bad advice from tour leaders doesnt help at all and I dont depend on it. Infact he was recommending reverse profiling between deco diving dives.

Luckily I had good theory/practice on Nitrox and O2 issues at depth (all be it not Advanced Nitrox) as well as I had already read up on decompression theory and my understanding I think was sufficient, along with 2 dive computers and sufficient backup and reserve. I tried to ensure we maintaining sufficient reserve for both to get to the surface and also if one were to lose air as well. I didn't want to walk away from Truk without diving it, seeing I had paid for us both, and until I emailed the dive shop there in panic about deep diving, didnt realise that most of the wrecks are shallow enough for recreational diving in any regard. Once again information we should have been given before we prepared to leave for the holiday. Another brilliant piece of planning by the illustrious leader group was to have 2 dive groups go into a wreck from different entry points and have to swim past each others group in the middle. We didnt realise thats what they planned (yes not in the loop again), and we were last in and saw people going everywhere. We bailed out and went up and over the wreck and met them on the other side as we lost the group and dive guide in the melee and I was not going to risk getting lost within the wreck. My feeling and thoughts were utter stupidity. Will I go on a tour with them again "NO".

I like to be organised and know what all the risks and issues are so I can decide to either prepare or not go at all. I dont like bad or rushed planning. The only issue we had the whole trip was a blown HP hose which we worked around by using a backup.

I appreciate where you are coming from and do know I need training to understand the risks of twin independants. Unfortunately the instructor I have chosen is very much a manifold only instructor and wants to train me on that only. Clearly I will also need to see someone about some further information, training on twin independants as well. That way at least i can appreciate the risks and prepare for them should I use that method. I dont blame the instructor as he is teaching the right way and the safest way, he believes in it implicitly and I agree with him. Probably once I get through the course if I asked him for help I am sure he would then discuss with me twin independants (but not right now).

I hope you are getting the answers you're looking for. As a TDI instructor, I have a concern about you using a manifold when at home and then independent doubles for your travel dives. The independent doubles for travelling is unfortunately a necessary evil that many of us live with, althought the techniques for diving I/D takes practise to develop the skills necessary to safely compete a dive while handling task loading and perhaps an emergency event. As suggested sidemount configuration could be an option. Although I understand you've taken this course to enable yourself to dive truk (an amazing place to dive), unless you are trained and practise diving I/D you may be exposing yourself to unnecessary risk. I know weight is a big concern as I travel a lot myself, but I hope you can find a solution to this issue through; careful packing, practising on I/D or further training. Best of luck and enjoy all the "Maru's".

Thanks for your advice and thoughts, I know I have some work ahead of me before I am somewhat competent. I do understand what you are saying regarding risks increasing etc. Thanks for the advice.

---------- Post Merged at 08:31 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 05:30 AM ----------

OMS, and I believe other companies, make a "Travel Band" System. This will let you use any tanks as independent doubles with your backplate. The tanks are attached with cambands and the entire assembly bolts to your backplate through the wing.

OMS Cylinder Soft Bands and Cylinder Adapters http://www.OMSdive.com

I was advised today that these soft bands are no longer in production and the supplier is about 4-6 weeks away from having a cheaper system available.

 

[Druid]

One of my buddys uses Buddy Twinning Bands and they seem to work ok for him, and I'm sure AP Valves would have no problem supplying to Australia. Although they are designed for use on Buddy plastic backplates they are easily adapted to work on the more widely used metal backplate and wing.

If your wing has no slots to correspond with the slots in your backplate then it's not really a problem to cut the fabric in the centre of the wing. Lay the backplate on top of the wing and mark the position of the slots using chalk. Make sure you are not going to puncture the bladder and cut the holes using a sharp hot knife.

 

[SeaCobra]

You can always learn side mount

 

[Wolfie]

A couple of thoughts here. You could get training in side mount instead of independent doubles. Also you mentioned a deco bottle with 50/50 as safety. It is not, you'd be in a world of trouble if you lost your main gas below 70ft and wanted to use 50/50.

 

[Colliam7]

I am coming a bit late to the party. It appears that you have taken advantage of the deal on the 50lb wing, harness, and AL backplate package. Very nice price for someone who wants to dive doubles with the rig. Adreno T50 Wing Kit - Aluminium | Adreno Scuba Diving Centre. Your questions may have already / finally been answered, but to add to the comments:

I havent seen a twin setup yet. I dont understand how it all goes together. I am trying to rig up twin scuba tanks onto a Andreno T50 wing and aluminium back plate. Is the back plate on the inside of the wing?

1. If you want to assemble a backplate, wing, and cylinder, the arrangement / order, starting at the diver's back is: a. backplate, then b. wing, then c. cylinder(s). How you 'connect' the parts together depends upon what system you use to hold the cylinders together. But, using stainless steel cylinder bands as an example, each of the cylinder bands has a stainless steel bolt that runs through the middle / center of the band - between the two loops that go around the cylinders - with the threaded end of the bolt pointed toward the diver. The bolt ends thread through the holes in the wing, then through the holes in the plate, and you tighten the bands (with cylinders) to the plate with wing nuts (and appropriate washers) threaded on the bolt ends. Because the wing is positioned between the plate and cylinders, it stays in place. And, to address a possible misconception, for diving doubles, you use TWO cam bands, each of which loops around both cylinders (and narrows in the middle between the cylinders), not FOUR.

It appears to me that there are many slots in the backplate, some for the harness but the ones I would use to attach the woven bands to the tanks, I have no access to as the wing is in the way.

2. Technically, you are right. See comment, below, about the T50 wing.

It seems from the pictures I have (dont have the wing sent yet) there are only 2 mounting holes for screws through the wing from the back where the cylinders sit to the backplate. How does one then fix the twin cylinders with cam bands to the back plate? Do I have to buy something else apart from 4 cam bands?

3. Your question addresses the slots for cam bands that are present on the backplate, but not the wing. In general, the cam band slots that may be present on backplates, and wings, are intended for single cylinder diving, not double cylinder diving. NOTE: The Adreno T50 wing as advertised in the package deal - presumably what you have - does NOT have slots for cam bands. The attachment points are bolts, and the wing has bolt holes (only).

I could use stainless twin cylinder bands but dont want the weight if possible . . . I prefer a set of woven bands for the cylinders and run them as independants to reduce carry weight when travelling but at this stage dont understand how one attaches twins with woven bands to the wing.

4. You are looking for a low(er) weight alternative to SS cylinder bands. A set of SS bands weighs ~ 4.75 - 5 lbs, with bolts. OMS (among others) markets a Dual Cylinder Travel Band system (OMS Cylinder Soft Bands and Cylinder Adapters http://www.OMSdive.com) which appears to be the kind of rigging you are looking for. I suspect you can order these as they are possibly not locally available. One point - that travel band system weighs 3 lbs. So, while you save some weight, it is only ~ a 2lb savings, which may not be worth the trouble and expense. Just a thought.[

. . . how do the SS bands mount on anyway, are they simply bolted on with a long bolt which has a nut fixing it to the backplate, then two more nuts to space the SS bands out from the wing?

5. Yes, each of the bands slips over the two cylinders, and are then positioned so that the bolts are 11" OC apart, and the nuts are then threaded on the bolts to tighten the bands around the cylinders. The nuts are not really used to 'space' the bands out from the wing - they are used to tighten the bands around the cylinders.

Certainly, there is a little more 'art' and 'science' involved in assembling dual cylinders. But, hopefully this gives you the coarse overview.