Atomic ST1 vs. Traditional Alternate Source

[torrin]

I just received my open water certification yesterday and I am considering buying a full rig. My LDS carries Atomic products and their best package comes with the SS1 integrated secondary air source with BCD inflator.

During my open water training, we had an odd number of people and I ended up buddied with the dive master and he had an integrated alternate airsource. I found sharing air to be darn inconvenient with the short hose on his primary, I could barely face him because his hose was too short for me to use comfortably. While pool training, my buddy had a standard octo alternate and it was quite easy to share air.

I asked my LDS and my instructor, both stated the SS1 makes everything more streamlined and OOA in real life does not happen very often and the SS1 still solves that issue. Additionally partnered with a B2 or ST1, the swivels on the primary will help with the proximity issues related to sharing air on a shorter hose.

Does anyone have a strong opinion on this or real world real emergency situations they can share with me?

Thanks!

 

[cb5150]

I've owned both, I prefer my alternate on a bungee around my neck and a longer hose on my primary. I would donate my longer primary and switch to my alternate...that is bungee'd around my neck...safe, secure and in the same place every time...not dragging the on the coral or clipped to my side or banging into other divers on the boat.

They sell hoses in different lengths. If you think one is too short, buy a longer one.

 

[Phil_C]

Hi Torrin - I think the expression 'light the blue touch paper and retire' applies here

If you do a search you will find no end of very strong views expressed both ways regarding integrated safe seconds like the SS1.

It will probably serve you best to search the board and have a look at what has been said before, but that said I am sure that no end of people will not resist the surge to chip in again and tell you why you are all going to die if you use one, and how (un)safe and difficult (easy) to use etc. they are.

They are safe within the limits that they are designed for, and if you only plan to dive recreationally and in reasonable circumstances and you like them, then by all means go ahead and get one.

But if you are planning to progress in your diving and get into more advanced and deeper dives, then you may find the restrictions from having an SS1 type second will mean you are having to change and get new kit.

Whichever route you go down one thing your LDS has said is true ! air sharing situations don't happen every day, so whichever option you get make sure you and your buddy practice regularly. Otherwise when you do need to use the skill you will find the muscle memory and ability just isn't there. This is all the more important if you and your buddy have trained on independent octopuses and haven't practised together using an SS1 type device.

Dive safe and have fun -

Phil

 

[fnfalman]

I use the SS1, BUT, I do not use the standard short hose that comes with the factory Atomic (or any other company) 2nd Stage. I use a 36" Miflex hose so that when I share air, there's a bit of distance between me and the OOA diver.

The Atomic swivel is a nice piece of machinery but it isn't enough to truly make it convenient with an OOA diver. The Miflex hose coupled with another 4-6" of hose makes for a much better setup.

Of course, somebody is going to jump in soon about how a rec diver should be equipped with a 5-ft or 7-ft hose for the 2nd stage any time now.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

The 5' or 7' primary hose does make air sharing really easy The SS1 is a great piece of engineering - I've breathed off one below 200' and it was pretty much as good as breathing off my ST1. And the whole argument about it being difficult to control buoyancy with the same thing you're breathing off is, IME, pure B.S.

That said, I hated how long the inflator hose had to be for it to really be a workable alternate air source. You can either have a nice 14"-16" inflator hose and a custom ordered SS1 LP hose, but barely be able to get the SS1 in your gob, or, have a long inflator hose that matches the standard SS1 LP hose and always have the SS1 dangling. I much prefer my 12" inflator hose and a necklaced second stage on a 22" hose.

 

[LowDrag]

This is what I posted on another thread asking the same question:

As you can see from my dive count I am a new diver as well. I was trained with the ScubaPro Air2 and talked into buying that reg with my vest style BC. I trained with it and did my OW dives with it. Just a few dives later and I have switched to a BP&W with a 7' primary hose and a bungee'd second. The reason I switched was because I did not like the feeling of having the OOA diver in my face during training (plus I found that I really like the BP&W). I also did not like having to keep my head positioned to the left because my Air2 hose was too short. I talked to my LDS owner about getting a longer hose for it but he was indifferent and said it was fine the way it was. I personally like my long hose/bungee configuration, it just makes sense to me and is easy for me to operate. Does that mean it will work best for you? NOPE!!! It just means that is what I like. There have been quite a few folks in this thread on both sides of the fence. Are any of them wrong? NOPE!!! They are all right in the thought that what works for them is what works for them. Being a new diver myself and having tried both configurations, my suggestion would be to connect with someone who dives a 7'/bungee system and rent a BC with an Air2 type system and go do a dive or two. Do some air sharing drills and see which rig YOU like the best. I love my rig and would not trade back to an Air2 for anything but that is just me. I like being able to grab my safe second knowing it is just under my chin so that I can easily donate my primary. I just hope that if I ever am in an OOA situation that I see the diver coming at me so I can be ready before they get to me.

Good luck in figuring out what you like. It adds to the fun of diving for me.

 

[0002s]

I dive an SS1 and a ST1. I have had two occasions that required me to use my SS1. I had no issues passing my ST1 and breathing off my SS1. The divers receiving my ST1 had no issues either.

-jm2c

 

[PatW]

I dive with an atomic B1. Now my secondary on my BC is short. When I took rescue, I handed off my primary and used the back up. A short hose is no problem because I tend to be close to me. The primary has a hose that is long enough for sharing.

My wife dives atomic also but she opted for a long backup.

By the way, I have been told that an out of air diver is going to go for your primary most of the time.

 

[BDSC]

I have been diving the Scubapro AIR II since 91 when I was certified. I had one when I was taking my OW class and doing an air share was not a problem. I have practiced doing the air share a few times since then and again it was not a problem as I handed off my primary and I used the AIR II. If you are doing recreational diving and find yourself in a situation where you need to hand off your primary and use the SS1, most likely you will only need to use it for a couple of minutes at the most to reach the surface so for me it being slightly less comfortable than my primary reg is a non issue. In real life diving I have never in all my years and well over 1000 dives ran out of air myself nor have I ever been with a buddy or even had someone in our group run out of air.

I don't really buy into the idea that being more streamlined by having one is all that beneficial as the entire "more streamlined" is more hype than reality in recreational diving.

 

[fnfalman]

I have been diving the Scubapro AIR II since 91 when I was certified. I had one when I was taking my OW class and doing an air share was not a problem. I have practiced doing the air share a few times since then and again it was not a problem as I handed off my primary and I used the AIR II. If you are doing recreational diving and find yourself in a situation where you need to hand off your primary and use the SS1, most likely you will only need to use it for a couple of minutes at the most to reach the surface so for me it being slightly less comfortable than my primary reg is a non issue. In real life diving I have never in all my years and well over 1000 dives ran out of air myself nor have I ever been with a buddy or even had someone in our group run out of air.

I don't really buy into the idea that being more streamlined by having one is all that beneficial as the entire "more streamlined" is more hype than reality in recreational diving.

I don't think that "streamlining" in this case means that you can swim faster or more efficient in a hydrodynamics way. I think that "streamlining" in this case means simplicity of the gears. You have one less hose to drag around and deal with. I dive with an SS1 and a wireless air integrated computer: 2-hoses. I like it and that's all what matters.