Atlantis and their Wrecks - Split from the "Carthaginian from Shore thread"

[KrisB]

Atlantis leases that space of ocean from the State of Hawaii. And that as the 'landlords' they have protocol for diver behavior and safety issues around the sub.

Has anyone heard this from someone other than Atlantis personnel? I understood that "oceanspace" wasn't available for lease and the only controls that are allowed are mandated and enforced by the USCG.

I have heard this very strongly said by several Atlantis employees, so I'm just curious if that's who we're taking as "the gospel"...

When diving the wreck, announce you're going to be in the area by calling the Atlantis tug, Roxie, on channel 88a on VHF radio

I trust the channel selection is a recommendation... if they're not monitoring 16 as well, that would be a violation of US laws or USCG rules...

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

It is fairly common knowledge among Oahu dive op's, and evidently Lahaina's; we dive the sub attractions with their permission. The wrecks would not be there if not for them. They probably could be way more strict if they chose.

 

[KrisB]

It is fairly common knowledge among Oahu dive op's, and evidently Lahaina's; we dive the sub attractions with their permission. The wrecks would not be there if not for them. They probably could be way more strict if they chose.

I totally understand not getting in their way (i.e. no "bug on windshield" business) -- that's common courtesy, and just as you wouldn't paddle your kayak to hang out in front of a PWF vessel for the heck of it, you shouldn't swim over in front of the sub (partly for your own safety... apparently there have been several fatalities of people being sucked through their propellers).

I'm just not understanding the idea of "this is mine" space... how far does it extend? They visit a couple other sites as well... like that reef off the stern of the Carth. Is it on their "land"? Does all this mean I can't go fishing in this area without their permission as well?

I guess I'm just trying to figure out whether these special rules are ones they have spread as propaganda or whether there is actually something on the law books... you'd think there'd be as much uproar about it as there was about the 100-yard no-go zone around the Superferry if it is all true.

 

[ScubaDiveMaui]

I trust the channel selection is a recommendation... if they're not monitoring 16 as well, that would be a violation of US laws or USCG rules...

More than a recommendation, 88a is THE working channel for Atlantis communications. Meaning that they are constantly monitoring both 16 (required by law) & 88a (which all the Atlantis vessels are tuned to for vessel to vessel communications/coordination).

With regard to the legitimacy of Atlantis' lease... Knowing the individuals involved in the process, the whole sinking of an 'underwater attraction' was a big deal, which took years... finally resulting in the State requiring Atlantis to lease the space in order to sink the wreck. Taken from 2005 Maui News Article: "Like the other Atlantis reefs, the state is being asked to grant a nonexclusive lease of submerged lands. The company uses the reefs that grow up on the dead ship as an attraction for its tours. But other people can also visit."

My understanding of the protocol mentioned previously, is with the intention of safe diving practices around the submarine. Atlantis purchased the Carthaginian, as well as the lease of that submerged land, specifically for their submarine tours. And while other people are welcome to visit, there are certain SAFETY PROTOCOL that should be followed to avoid possible hazardous situations while diving around the sub. Seems reasonable that Atlantis would ask for a heads-up on when you're going to be there, that you not approach the sub because the pilot has a limited field of view, and that visitors use the bow mooring they provide and maintain for visitor use, rather than the one they reserve for themselves.

Unrelated to the Carthaginian 'ownership', I also understand that a specific area of ocean there has been outlined for submarine operations... I don't know all the specifics, but I do know that anchoring is not permitted in this area... again, kinda common sense.

It seems irresponsible to let this go unmentioned, so let me say that while I can appreciate questioning the legitimacy of the u/w lease and Atlantis' rights to dictate protocol, I'm honestly confused by what appears to be an implication that Atlantis might be violating federal laws regarding VHF radio use... IMO to imply such is downright reckless and I cannot see how doing so adds anything to this discussion but flammable material.

 

[KrisB]

It seems irresponsible to let this go unmentioned, so let me say that while I can appreciate questioning the legitimacy of the u/w lease and Atlantis' rights to dictate protocol, I'm honestly confused by what appears to be an implication that Atlantis might be violating federal laws regarding VHF radio use... IMO to imply such is downright reckless and I cannot see how doing so adds anything to this discussion but flammable material.

Apologies. I've just never seen any mention of hailing other vessels on anything but 16, unless we're talking about harbour operations. It seemed very strange they would include that in their briefing unless they weren't going to be available on the usual frequencies.

I don't understand "nonexclusive lease" -- if it's nonexclusive, then there's no risk of "trespassing" right?

I'm sorry... I realize this sounds awefully critical, but I think too many of the things in this world are "owned" by someone when they really should be left in the public trust for the use of the people that want to see them. Call me a socialist if you'd like.