What is your basis for making this statement?
Asking for recommendation on dive gear
- Thread starter Lifelyjump
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What is your basis for making this statement?
I think what Scuba Legend means is that all modern computers will get you out of the water safely if you dive conservatively and understand the computer.
But to the OP, Stuart is right; it's never to early to start learning about algorithms (or anything else in SCUBA). The more you know, the safer and more enjoyable the sport is.
It's not just that. The algorithm is important as soon as you do a dive where you're limited by NDL, rather than gas left in your cylinder. Depending on the diver and the dives, that could happen immediately after finishing OW training. I was at that point after about 30 dives.
I think it does a real disservice to new divers to tell them that the algorithm won't matter to them for a long time.
Scuba Legends
Registered
Well. Under my point of view a new certified diver shouldn't go close to NDL.
Aswell, i don't believe that there is any brand (mention to me one please) that makes computers dangerouse for divers, not even when you go into deco. All recreational computers under my point of view arr massively conservative to be caring about algorithms.
I've seen many computers (included,cressi, mares,scuba pro and sunto) asking for 8 minutes deco stop while my liquid vision is not even into deco.
I don't know any diving accident that happent because of a wrong calculation of the computer ( in recreational diving)
On top of that, i agree is never too early to start learning, but for a new certified open water there are thousands of things to learn before even start thinking on algorithms. Maybe the most impirtant one is to keep away from the NDL.
As a tech instructor i am the first that likes to talk about different algorithms,aswell i see many people and students that to show off to the new certified divers they just talk about things that confuse them, even before finishing their first technical diving course.
If any of you agree that a brand new OWD should be diving close to the limits can give me a good reason why, if any of you can tell me why you need to know about algorithms to be a recreational diver (that means to never go into deco) please let me know. I am open minded to understand your reasons.
DIVERS SHOULD PLAN THEIR DIVES IN ORDER TO AVOID BEING CLOSE TO THE LIMITS.
That means that if you are forced to be close to them, you failed your plan.
Doesn't make sense to me to tell someone with little experience: go close to your NDL, but before learn all the algorithm theory. I rather to teach them, keep yourself away from the limits.
Me personally i don't see any reason positive on confusing this poor guy since the begginning. I see a few bad.
I just believe that confusing new divers with useless information because the word algorithm is cool and make us look important and aknowledged is the worst mistake any diver could do. They barely understand what does NDL mean.
So. As an end. I never ment to offend anybody. On top of that english is not my native language. Normally, in my 10 years experience as an instructor, i learned the ones that get mad when people have different opinions about one topic are the ones that try to show off. If you are experienced and have knowledge, you don't get mad. You just understand, agree or disagree.
Remmember that in diving there is in many topics with not only one correct answer, not only one way to do the things, not only one way to teach and not only one way to learn. Unluckily many divers and instructors forget this fact very fast.
Sorry for whoever felt insulted by my post. It was a try to be helpfull.
And thanks a lot because if there is something i enjoy other than diving, is a cool discussion about diving.
Happy Bubbles
Aswell, i don't believe that there is any brand (mention to me one please) that makes computers dangerouse for divers, not even when you go into deco. All recreational computers under my point of view arr massively conservative to be caring about algorithms.
I've seen many computers (included,cressi, mares,scuba pro and sunto) asking for 8 minutes deco stop while my liquid vision is not even into deco.
I don't know any diving accident that happent because of a wrong calculation of the computer ( in recreational diving)
On top of that, i agree is never too early to start learning, but for a new certified open water there are thousands of things to learn before even start thinking on algorithms. Maybe the most impirtant one is to keep away from the NDL.
As a tech instructor i am the first that likes to talk about different algorithms,aswell i see many people and students that to show off to the new certified divers they just talk about things that confuse them, even before finishing their first technical diving course.
If any of you agree that a brand new OWD should be diving close to the limits can give me a good reason why, if any of you can tell me why you need to know about algorithms to be a recreational diver (that means to never go into deco) please let me know. I am open minded to understand your reasons.
DIVERS SHOULD PLAN THEIR DIVES IN ORDER TO AVOID BEING CLOSE TO THE LIMITS.
That means that if you are forced to be close to them, you failed your plan.
Doesn't make sense to me to tell someone with little experience: go close to your NDL, but before learn all the algorithm theory. I rather to teach them, keep yourself away from the limits.
Me personally i don't see any reason positive on confusing this poor guy since the begginning. I see a few bad.
I just believe that confusing new divers with useless information because the word algorithm is cool and make us look important and aknowledged is the worst mistake any diver could do. They barely understand what does NDL mean.
So. As an end. I never ment to offend anybody. On top of that english is not my native language. Normally, in my 10 years experience as an instructor, i learned the ones that get mad when people have different opinions about one topic are the ones that try to show off. If you are experienced and have knowledge, you don't get mad. You just understand, agree or disagree.
Remmember that in diving there is in many topics with not only one correct answer, not only one way to do the things, not only one way to teach and not only one way to learn. Unluckily many divers and instructors forget this fact very fast.
Sorry for whoever felt insulted by my post. It was a try to be helpfull.
And thanks a lot because if there is something i enjoy other than diving, is a cool discussion about diving.
Happy Bubbles
Last edited:
gopbroek
Contributor
As to liberal verses conservative algorithm I agree that all current computers that I know of are safe. I also agree that a new certified diver should not be 'riding the line' near the NDL point. The problem I often do see is computers being to conservative (safe) and limiting dive times. I dive primarily in Cozumel with warm water, good visibility and a current that does the work for you, this allows for long dive profiles, AL80's can go 60-80 minutes with decent air consumption. On day one most computers match up pretty close but on successive days they start deviating. RGBM based units (Suunto being notorious) will often start limiting dive times punitively without the user knowing what they specifically did to p!$$ it off. I see the DSAT or Buhlmann based computers as being more predictable and the ability to select a conservative verses liberal algorithm based on the type of diving they will be doing as a definate benefit.
I do not believe a new diver should base their decision on a computer based only upon his current dive skills but should look forward as to where they expect too be, skill wise, at 50 - 100 dives. In the interm they should make a conscience decision to avoid the NDL by a good margin and dive conservatively until they gain experience.
I do not believe a new diver should base their decision on a computer based only upon his current dive skills but should look forward as to where they expect too be, skill wise, at 50 - 100 dives. In the interm they should make a conscience decision to avoid the NDL by a good margin and dive conservatively until they gain experience.
Who said they should?
How do your tell them to avoid getting close to the NDL? Do you tell them to always surface with 5 minutes left or what?
If you think all recreational computers are safe, then why would you not tell them to get one with an algorithm that will give them the longest bottom times, even if they are always ascending with 5 minutes NDL left? 5 minutes left out of 30 is still better than 5 minutes left out of 25.
Scuba Legends
Registered
Dear stuart.
Maybe you forget that you should plan your dive before diving?
I dont. I (according to the standards) teach them to plan their dive before diving like every good diver should do. This is how i tell them how they ahould avoid getting close to the deco limits.
All the computers have a Plan Mode and you can asily check your bottom time.
Much better and safe option than just improvising and comming up when you are just 5 min go deco.
Precisely that is what planing a dive means. To keep you away from the deco limits.
Kind regards
Maybe you forget that you should plan your dive before diving?
I dont. I (according to the standards) teach them to plan their dive before diving like every good diver should do. This is how i tell them how they ahould avoid getting close to the deco limits.
All the computers have a Plan Mode and you can asily check your bottom time.
Much better and safe option than just improvising and comming up when you are just 5 min go deco.
Precisely that is what planing a dive means. To keep you away from the deco limits.
Kind regards
So if your student is jumping in where the bottom is 60' down and they dutifully check their computer planner and it tells them they have 60 minutes NDL, then they get in and swim around for 50 minutes and their computer says they still have 30 more minutes of NDL (because the bottom is 60 but they've been swimming around between 45 and 55), and they still have plenty of air, you teach them that they should get out anyway? So, there's really no point in having a computer at all, right? All they need is a bottom timer, right?
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