We'll soon be doing some ascend drills from 25m (80ft). Alternative air ascend, normal ascend that sort of thing. We're planning three per dive, we will not (intentionally) exceed safe ascend rate and the ascends will all be performed at the beginning of the dive. Obviously, we will be regularly asking about sinus / ear discomfort, etc. And being at the beginning of the dive there should be very limited nitrogen tissue loading. But drills being drills, there's likely going to be points for improvement, and do-overs. My question is, is there any theory or practical guidance on how many of such drills can be fitted in one training dive? Can we do 1 extra? 2? Any input / experience is greatly appreciated!
Ascend drills - how many is too many?
- Thread starter jayknight
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All of those skills can be taught at much shallower depths. Ascending from 80 feet is the same as ascending from 30 feet, just more water.....and chances for problems. The risk of this doesn't justify the training value, in my opinion.
Assuming you are talking about doing this under the guidance of an instructor, I would like to know what class and for what agency. As Vivko said two posts above this one, I do not know of any agency that does such training.
Your profile says you are CMAS trained. Is this a CMAS class?
Your profile says you are CMAS trained. Is this a CMAS class?
OK, some more background. I AM an instructor (albeit a fresh one - CMAS indeed), and I am asked to assist on this drill. And, clearly, I am having some concerns. I agree with @DiveProKoko that many lessons can be learned from 10m. Having said that, I also see the value of experiencing how loooong (2.5 min) a safe ascend from 25m really is. But three in one dive seems quite a lot, esp if the idea is that we need to repeat in case of 'beauty flaws'. Hence my question.
But what is the recommended max? Say we do it once, but there is room for improvement, does it make sense to do it a second time in the same dive? BTW: I am unaware of any (CMAS or otherwise) 'rule book' where it specifies that this is not 'allowed'. So any recommendation is greatly appreciated.
But what is the recommended max? Say we do it once, but there is room for improvement, does it make sense to do it a second time in the same dive? BTW: I am unaware of any (CMAS or otherwise) 'rule book' where it specifies that this is not 'allowed'. So any recommendation is greatly appreciated.
Just do one per dive. Spread the skill out over several dives if needed, but everyone has to come up, so I'm not understanding why you would need to do this multiple times with smaller subsets of a class.
If there is a question as to the skills of the divers to safely ascend, such that they need independent or buddy pair direct supervision, they shouldn't be at 25m to start with.
If there is a question as to the skills of the divers to safely ascend, such that they need independent or buddy pair direct supervision, they shouldn't be at 25m to start with.
Definitely only one ascent, particularly from 25m. Any remedial lessons can be debriefed and applied on subsequent dives. If anything was to happen, whether directly attributable or not, it would be very difficult to justify.
Two is too many ascents on a dive.
There are no rulebook statements by any agency I know of forbidding requiring students to juggle chainsaws during a surface interval. That does not make it a good idea.
If a student has an accident doing an activity that is a standard part of the course, and the instructor did it properly, in an ensuing lawsuit the plaintiff will not be able to assert that what the student did was dangerous and outside the normal practices of instruction. On the other hand, if a student has an accident while doing something that the instructor has added to the course, then the plaintiff can argue that the activity was a dangerous one that no prudent instructor would require of a student. The instructor who required the activity would have to prove that although the agency does not include the activity, it was still safe to do so. Defending an activity not condoned by any agency would be a tough job.
Now, I do not have the kind of scuba status that would lead to me being an expert witness, but if I were called to testify in a case resulting from this planned practice, I would testify that doing three deep ascents on one dive is dangerous and outside the scope of normal scuba instruction.
But you will be just fine as long as no one is hurt.
kaylee_ann
crazy diver
Stupid question…why would all the students have to do three ascents? I thought it was just once to prove you have the skill down pat. There doesn’t seem to be a reason for it to be done multiple times, from the exact same depth. The risk/benefit ratio doesn’t seem worth it. Unless I’m reading the post wrong.
Eta couldn’t they do skill do-overs at a shallower depth?
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