Artefact pillaging?

[DWJ]

I recently read a book call "submerged" written by Daniel Lenihan. I tell you that it made me rethink the taking of artifacts off the wrecks.
In addition, I dove the Voland off NY and in less than 1 year the wreak has been stripped pretty clean. On this link one of the pic's is the marine head. Well even thats gone now. So this picture is the only way I got to see it.

http://www.ppo2.com/volund.htm

So in the end, I got to see alot of twisted and bent metal. It really takes alot of the fun out of diving these wrecks.

 

[northcoast_diver]

I've just finished reading "The Last Dive", about the dangers of deep wreck and cave diving and the loss of life involved in these endeavours.

One thing struck me as odd: all of the expert divers in the book are active seekers of goodies from sunken ships (dishes, portholes, bells, etc).

I'm new to diving ...

There would be nothing more fulfilling than to serve dinner to a feast of friends on plates taken from the Andria Doria.

They are down there, waiting to be plucked up.

Plates, cups, saucers, dessert bowls, the whole shiboom.

 

[northcoast_diver]

I recently read a book call "submerged" written by Daniel Lenihan. I tell you that it made me rethink the taking of artifacts off the wrecks.
In addition, I dove the Voland off NY and in less than 1 year the wreak has been stripped pretty clean. On this link one of the pic's is the marine head. Well even thats gone now. So this picture is the only way I got to see it.

http://www.ppo2.com/volund.htm

So in the end, I got to see alot of twisted and bent metal. It really takes alot of the fun out of diving these wrecks.

Anchors, bells, and porthole covers are not really "artifacts" they are more like "souvenirs." Ask any pirate.

And if you could ask the artifact, I mean, the souvenir, itself, it would probably tell you that it prefers to be retrieved and polished up and on display.

More telling is the issue of where on display the artifact, I mean, the souvenir would be of the most worth? Probably in a museum. But then, a private collection, as long as it is shared with the public from time to time, seems fair also.

 

[northcoast_diver]

We don't take anything in the Great Lakes. It's illegal and things last a long time in fresh water.

Things don't last anywhere near as long in salt water and it isn't always illegal.

Precisely right.

If someone does not "rescue" the artifacts, I mean, the souvenirs, from the ocean, then they will eventually become dissolved into the salty briney deep, and lost forever.

 

[NEWreckDiver]

http://thunderbay.noaa.gov/

-Frank

Yes, I know Canada has artifact recovery regulations, but not the US.

 

[Rick Murchison]

Yes, I know Canada has artifact recovery regulations, but not the US.

Depends on where you are. Alabama has perhaps the most draconian artifact laws in the country. You can't recover *anything* legally from Alabama waters. It is a very bad law and we're working hard to get it overturned before there's nothing but rust left, and history is lost forever.
Rick

 

[NEWreckDiver]

Depends on where you are. Alabama has perhaps the most draconian artifact laws in the country. You can't recover *anything* legally from Alabama waters. It is a very bad law and we're working hard to get it overturned before there's nothing but rust left, and history is lost forever.
Rick

Well good luck to you. That is why I disagree with the regulations.

 

[decoeric]

Yes, I know Canada has artifact recovery regulations, but not the US.

I think it depends on the area, because I know that it is illegal to take anything off the wrecks around Isle Royale. Check it out here. http://www.nps.gov/isro/Diving.htm I also know that the GLSPS discourages taking artifacts from the wrecks along the North Shore of Lake Superior which is all I can speak of, but it is not illegal. http://www.glsps.org/ is there site... So I think it depends on the area.

 

[Displaced Yooper]

The Michigan statutes concerning abandoned property (artifacts) on the Great Lakes are:

324.76107
(1) Except as provided in section 76108, a person shall not recover, alter, or destroy abandoned property which is in, on, or over the bottomlands of the Great Lakes, including those within a Great Lakes bottomlands preserve, unless the person has a permit issued jointly by the department of history, arts, and libraries under section 76109.
(3) A person shall not remove, convey, mutliate, or deface a human body or the remains of a human body located on the bottomlands of the Great Lakes...........

324.76108
(1) A person may recover abandoned property outside a Great Lakes bottomlands preserve without a permit if the abandoned property is not attached to, nor located on, in, or located in the immediate vicinity of and associated with a sunken aircraft or watercraft and if the abandoned property is recoverable by hand without mechanical or other assistance.

324.76117
(1) If a person who violates this part or a rule promulgated under this part uses a watercraft, mechanical or other assistance, scuba gear, sonar equipment, a motor vehicle, or any other equipment or apparatus during the course of committing the violation, the items so used may be attached, proceeded against, and confiscated as prescribed in this part.


The above is not the complete statute, but the sections that most pertain to the act of recovery. Depending on the value of the item taken and previous violations (if any), the penalities range from $200 or up to 93 days in jail...to...$15,000 or up to 10 years in jail.

I am not a lawyer, so there may be other "intrepretations" of these statutes. So, feel free to check for yourself...I may have made an error.

 

[NOVIZWHIZ]

Just my 2 cents - here in South Carolina we are known for our fossil and artifact diving. We have a very comprehensive law that I feel is fair to both the state and the divers. The program is managed through the state's depart. of underwater archeology and anthropology. They administrators work well with the divers and many finds of historical importance are reported to the state that otherwise would not be. All the state asks is that you do a quarterly report and make your finds available to photograph and study, also brief on where the objects were recovered. There's a minimal cost for the license that a diver must carry and if you fail to make reports you might have dificulty renewing the license. On recovering human remains, I personally have a real problem with that. I put one of those plastic model skulls together one time, did a little creative painting and snuck it along on a dive...shoved it in my partners face at about 20 ft ...well, the rest wasn't pretty. Years later he still thought it was real...I never told him any different.