Argonaut Kraken exhaust loop flooding issue...?

[SilentScreamer]

For the most robust fix which addresses both the loop flooding and intermittent WOB variability replace the exhaust valve with an Apeks exhaust valve AP1429 with integral stand-off rib.

Thanks to your advice that is exactly what I did and it totally fixed the flooding issue so far !

 

[Fibonacci]

For the most robust fix which addresses both the loop flooding and intermittent WOB variability replace the exhaust valve with an Apeks exhaust valve AP1429 with integral stand-off rib.

Mooching about on the SCUBA Museum site revealed an updated Kraken exhaust valve is now available to correct the 'sticktion' issue to the main LP diaphragm:

On some very specific circumstances a wet exhaust valve inside the Kraken can, can become stuck to the main diaphragm rendering the regulator locked up. The regulator will not deliver air and the diver will not be able to start his dive until he opens his can and peels the valve away from the main diaphragm. ​

This will not likely happen while diving, but can happen on the boat just as you are getting ready and it can be super annoying.​

This specially designed replacement exhaust valve is made of food grade silicone and has a built in stand off that makes this rare but annoying occurrence impossible. ​

Installation is as easy as removing the original valve and lubing the stem of the new valve with some hand sanitizer and pulling it into place.​

You are buying one valve and supplies are limited so please be kind and only order the amount you need.​

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Good to see this being addressed but I beg to differ on when and how it can happen, it has certainly occurred regularly underwater for both myself and others until corrected with the Apeks valve!

 

[Scott G. Bonser]

I have also posted this over on VDH, and got two confirmations of similar regular flooding events from other Kraken owners but posting here more broadly as the similarly designed drop-in DBE is also likely to be affected.

I had issues on a recent dive trip to PNG when the exhaust loop on my Kraken would occasionally flood in specific conditions... body horizontal, head slightly down, paused after breathing out.
Could hear a 'glick-glick-glick' as water came in... occurred about 1 in 5 breaths in that position

Hoses, diaphragm, can and mouthpiece exhaust valves were all fine.

The exhaust loop flood first occurred on a night dive when I was breathing softly, marvelling at how the DH reg allowed me to get much closer to the tiny shrimp I was photographing.
Suddenly it became almost impossible to breathe out without a major effort... very disconcerting!

I suspect the can exhaust valve is lifting off a little allowing water in because with body horizontal and head down the can exhaust valve becomes the highest point in the system.
IMO the exhaust valve should have some ribs added to increase stiffness to tune the 'break point' for the volume of static air in the hose. Simple metal-off tool mod.

Here's something I prepared earlier adding a tapered triangular 0.5mm rib to the existing valve

View attachment 483032

When I first learned to dive with a DHR back in the early 80s. The ‘instructor’ told me if I experience ‘gurgling’ water on the exhaust side of the MP, do a slow left roll as you are breathing. It make take a little effort to do this. The best way to ‘try’ this is to remove your MP then ‘purge’ it to get the water into your exhaust hose. Follow with a slow left roll and a short dive and the water should sufficiently clear. …(..I thought all DHR divers did that..)..I have never had the exhaust side of my DHR ever take on water w/out removing my mouthpiece….yet. I don’t make a habit of removing my MP from my mouth when diving a DHR. ..(..I may get a good ‘chiding’ on this response. Yeah, bring it on …)… as for what you experienced, let’s see what the ‘Kraken’ R & D team has to say there may have been a modifications to alleviate this with later models.

 

[Scott G. Bonser]

When I first learned to dive with a DHR back in the early 80s. The ‘instructor’ told me if I experience ‘gurgling’ water on the exhaust side of the MP, do a slow left roll as you are breathing. It make take a little effort to do this. The best way to ‘try’ this is to remove your MP then ‘purge’ it to get the water into your exhaust hose. Follow with a slow left roll and a short dive and the water should sufficiently clear. …(..I thought all DHR divers did that..)..I have never had the exhaust side of my DHR ever take on water w/out removing my mouthpiece….yet. I don’t make a habit of removing my MP from my mouth when diving a DHR. ..(..I may get a good ‘chiding’ on this response. Yeah, bring it on …)… as for what you experienced, let’s see what the ‘Kraken’ R & D team has to say there may have been a modifications to alleviate this with later models.

Ah hah!! TSM had the fix for this as well as another issue others have mentioned. TSM comes through again…

 

[DIVER1969DOWN]

I have also posted this over on VDH, and got two confirmations of similar regular flooding events from other Kraken owners but posting here more broadly as the similarly designed drop-in DBE is also likely to be affected.

I had issues on a recent dive trip to PNG when the exhaust loop on my Kraken would occasionally flood in specific conditions... body horizontal, head slightly down, paused after breathing out.
Could hear a 'glick-glick-glick' as water came in... occurred about 1 in 5 breaths in that position

Hoses, diaphragm, can and mouthpiece exhaust valves were all fine.

The exhaust loop flood first occurred on a night dive when I was breathing softly, marvelling at how the DH reg allowed me to get much closer to the tiny shrimp I was photographing.
Suddenly it became almost impossible to breathe out without a major effort... very disconcerting!

I suspect the can exhaust valve is lifting off a little allowing water in because with body horizontal and head down the can exhaust valve becomes the highest point in the system.
IMO the exhaust valve should have some ribs added to increase stiffness to tune the 'break point' for the volume of static air in the hose. Simple metal-off tool mod.

Here's something I prepared earlier adding a tapered triangular 0.5mm rib to the existing valve

View attachment 483032

check with rob from the scuba museum he has a mushroom that i found that fixes the problem

 

[Fibonacci]

check with rob from the scuba museum he has a mushroom that i found that fixes the problem

Yes that was what I said in my post above

 

[John C. Ratliff]

Okay, my 2 cents worth...this is only a problem for those using the Kraken and/or those using the VDH Duckbill Eliminator (DBE) insert into the bottom box. We did not have this problem when using a duckbill valve in the USD regulators. The Kraken is set up for only using the mushroom valve, from what I understand, as the DBE is built-in on the bottom box. My main go-to double hose regulators are my Trieste II and my Mossback Mark 3 regulators, and they both use the original duckbill concept. I have not over the years changed to the DBE; I simply replace the duckbill when it needs it.

Below is my Mossback Mark 3 being used in conjunction with a Dacor Nautilus CVS. It is not the ideal setup, as the Nautilus positions the regulator a bit high and away from my back, but it was do-able. For my avatar I'm also using the Mossback Mark 3, but with yellow USD hoses instead of the Hope-Page mouthpiece/hose system. But once I'm using the Dacor Nautilus CVS, I can take it off in the water and the hard-shell system floats my double hose regulators out of the water, so no free-flow.

SeaRat

 

[rhwestfall]

I have a PRAM that uses the DBE. I seem to get water in the loop upon exhale (soft), and/or when looking up/left. I have wondered if the mushroom valve of the DBE is too light, and is opening ever so slightly by the hose compressing (think accordion motion) or the soft exhale is letting water in...

My Kraken and my other PRAM have not given me problems, and both have the DBE...

 

[Fibonacci]

The main difference I can find is the DBE has an angled face for the mushroom valve seat vs the Kraken which is nearly parallel to the LP demand diaphragm.
I’ve fitted a couple of RAMs with the DBE which worked fine, vs continued trouble with my Kraken till I changed the exhaust valve for the Apeks AP1429 which is a bit thicker with a prominent stand off rib right across.
It would seem the pressure between the LP Diaphragm and the OEM Kraken exhaust valve is quite high.
Note the indentation witness marks.
The fact that The SCUBA Museum has spent the money to tool up for a custom Kraken exhaust valve suggests they think the problem is widespread and therefore worth doing for a ROI.