Argon

[JcoldwaterIL]

I have heard of people using argon to inflate drysuits. What advantage do you get over using regular air? Is there some type of insulation value? Or does it possibly effect buoyancy at all?

 

[Midnight Star]

I'm not sure, since I dont have a drysuit yet - But see if you can glean something from this.

-----

Mike.

 

[divemaster_jim]

Argon is a dense gas, by about 5 times that of air, therefore keeping you warmer.

 

[texdiveguy]

Multiple studies from private to US Navy show very little thermo value of argon when used in drysuits---just does not keep the diver warmer (maybe mentally he thinks he's warmer)....thats the reasons 'air' is still the gas of choice by most drysuit divers including myself.

 

[limeyx]

Multiple studies from private to US Navy show very little thermo value of argon when used in drysuits---just does not keep the diver warmer (maybe mentally he thinks he's warmer)....thats the reasons 'air' is still the gas of choice by most drysuit divers including myself.

are there any public links to those studies?

I think Argon based on it's molecular size is only supposed to be around 33% better than air, not 5 times.

Also, I think you only get the benefit from it if you flush the drysuit 3-4 times with Argon before the dive to get the air out.

I used it on a couple of dives and didn't notice it particularly helped, but it was 44F
and I wasn't cold so who knows in my case.

99% of the times I just use air.

 

[Thalassamania]

Hot breath as an option.

Eric Maiken's Conclusion in aquaCorps: Argon is a straightforward and inexpensive alternative to air for dry suit inflation. Just a few cubic feet (liters) of gas are required for most technical dives, depending on depth and diver ability. However, the trouble of an additional tank is not always justified in situations where air will suffice. Some argue against ever using argon when a thick set of underwear and more weight might do the job. And finally, suit inflation gas is only one of the many factors that impact a diver's overall thermal protection. Take a sensible, overall approach. Experiment, and then decide if argon is right for you!

 

[Doc Intrepid]

Argon is frequently used by divers who use helium mixes. Helium is a less dense gas and may conduct heat away from the diver's core faster than air, particularly if the diver is in extremely cold water on a high percent helium mix, which would tend to put the diver fairly deep.

Use of argon is controversial. Some don't believe it offers any benefit. Others would rather avail themselves of whatever edge it might offer (even if that turns out to be a placebo effect), particularly if they are doing extremely deep, cold, dark, trimix dives.

Empirical studies and data are difficult to come by. In part this is because the variability among divers in terms of susceptibility to cold, definition of 'discomfort', etc. are very subjective determinations. I'm familiar with the Navy study and it's conclusions. While the data are as empirical as may be possible when studying humans, it could also be argued that navy divers are not representative of a random sample of civilian technical divers, and that the navy study (which used probes to measure actual tissue temperatures of multiple control and study groups) could not account for variability in terms of whether those divers perceived themselves physiologically to actually be "cold" or "uncomfortable" or whether they did not. (Keep in mind that "feeling cold" and "being cold" may be two different things.....)

All the conclusions could show was that body temperatures did not seem to vary significantly among the various groups of divers in the study. Here is a link:
http://www.decompression.org/maiken/Why_Argon.htm
From our own Bob3 (second article from bottom):
http://www.angelfire.com/ca/divers3/links.htm
An abstract at Duke Med of the original study (avail at the bottom as a PDF file):
http://dspace.mclibrary.duke.edu/handle/2193/1274
Meet Mr. Search. (Actually, Google on Argon Drysuit, etc. to see numerous old SB threads...)
http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=25192&page=2&highlight=argon+navy+study+conclusion

Thus use of argon remains controversial, and hard data remains scarce. Unless you are breathing helium mixes, the benefit of argon is likely nil. If you are breathing high-percentage helium mixes while going very deep in extremely cold water, it might pay to give it a shot.

Your mileage may vary...

Doc

 

[ianr33]

Argon is a dense gas, by about 5 times that of air, therefore keeping you warmer.

Relative Atomic Mass of Argon (Ar) is 40.
Relative Molecular Mass of Oxygen (O2) is 32 and of nitrogen (N2) is 28.Call the average 30 (very roughly as ratio O2:N2 is 1:4)

The density of a gas is proportional to the mass of its atoms or molecules,so Ar is about 1 1/3 times as dense as air,not 5 times.

 

[Thalassamania]

Argon is frequently used by divers who use helium mixes. Helium is a less dense gas and may conduct heat away from the diver's core faster than air, particularly if the diver is in extremely cold water on a high percent helium mix, which would tend to put the diver fairly deep.

Use of argon is controversial. Some don't believe it offers any benefit. Others would rather avail themselves of whatever edge it might offer (even if that turns out to be a placebo effect), particularly if they are doing extremely deep, cold, dark, trimix dives.

...

Argon is controversial, and so is helium as cold gas. There is no question that it feels cold, but due to its rather low specfic heat some suggest that it removes less heat from a diver's core than does nitrogen. I don't what to think any more, but I'm NOT going back to CO₂ in my suit!<G> That was the WORST idea ever.

 

[karstdvr]

but I'm NOT going back to CO₂ in my suit!<G> That was the WORST idea ever.

Agreed,carbonic acid formation on the skin doesn't feel real good.

I stopped using Argon years ago,and moved to air when doing trimix dives,there isn't any perceptual difference.

I agree there is probably some placebo effect,just like people diving nitrox will come out saying they feel better...