Are there any entry tech courses that include Trimix?

[PerroneFord]

Conjecture? No. There has been quite a lot of research done in the "Bending of divers". Doppler studies and other tests. I've had access to some things, and some people and have had some amazing conversations. One with a gentleman currently doing this kind of work for NEDU in Panama City, FL. I took a scuba class with him, and when he was asked what he did for a living, his reply was, "I bend divers". Then he explained how, and scientifically, why.

He gave some very compelling arguments. Also my local instructor was involved in doppler experiements with divers doing 250-320ft dives in the caves in Wakulla when he was at FSU. They were studying much the same thing. Another group has done over 10 years of research on these same effects on divers doing those same dives.

It's a lot more than conjecture.

 

[rjack321]

I'd be interested to see any hard evidence to back up that point of view.
Or is it just "conjecture and gut feel" coupled with what instructors have told you?

Agreed on the stops, but I dont see that as any different on nitrox or 30/30 -- same thing applies (except I wouldn't be doing mandatory deco dives on 32% generally -- certainly not deeper than 100 feet)

I definately don't view nitrox deco as somehow "deco-lite" like its not real or something. And only He gives you "real deco"??

As far as the conjecture part goes, Buhlmann did add his safety factor for He after bending people on the original algorithm (I think)

 

[Mike Edmonston]

I certainly agree with Perrone on this point. Helium is less forgiving on missed stops quick ascents etc. A novice tech diver should be able to demonstrate mastery of controlled stopsn before injecting helium into the mix.

When you really look at it, gas is gas. As long as you inhale and exhale it's exactly the same. (minus the chipmunk voice).

The Only difference, is dive planning, Deco obligations, and technicalities in blending and testing the mix. Is helium less forgiving to a blown DECO? I'm not sure. I think every gas is unforgiving if you blow your stops.

As long as you have Proper trimix training, buoyancy control, and can hold a stop, you can dive helium. I don't think this VOODOO gas is more difficult to dive than air.

My .02psi

Cheers

Mike

 

[Blitz]

I have to agree with Perrone on this one, HE is less forgiving.

 

[limeyx]

I definately don't view nitrox deco as somehow "deco-lite" like its not real or something. And only He gives you "real deco"??

As far as the conjecture part goes, Buhlmann did add his safety factor for He after bending people on the original algorithm (I think)

I dont necessarily view it as "deco lite" either -- just given the choice, I'd rather use 30/30 for a deco dive than 32%

 

[limeyx]

Conjecture? No. There has been quite a lot of research done in the "Bending of divers". Doppler studies and other tests. I've had access to some things, and some people and have had some amazing conversations. One with a gentleman currently doing this kind of work for NEDU in Panama City, FL. I took a scuba class with him, and when he was asked what he did for a living, his reply was, "I bend divers". Then he explained how, and scientifically, why.

He gave some very compelling arguments. Also my local instructor was involved in doppler experiements with divers doing 250-320ft dives in the caves in Wakulla when he was at FSU. They were studying much the same thing. Another group has done over 10 years of research on these same effects on divers doing those same dives.

It's a lot more than conjecture.

Like I said, I'd be interested to actually see the data. Right now, I am forced (or end up?) basing most of my "dive 30/30 like 32%" argument on what I learned in tech1, and exactly 1 dive that I have done on 30/30 -- not really compelling evidence.

I would definitely like to see studies where Nitrox and helium (preferrably 30/30) mixes were tried with reasonably fast ascent rates, but I think not too many people will be willing to volunteer for such a study, and there probably isnt enough data collected from real incidents.

So I really *am* interested in the data, not just to refute something someone else said, but so I can really evaluate how best to dive those gases, and how to make tradeoffs in less than ideal circumstances.

 

[Meng_Tze]

Because in talking about linear distance, sometimes getting to that 70ft bottle is VERY comforting! I've done both (though not in high flow) and there was always something VERY reassuring about getting back to that stage bottle in the Peanut Tunnel after failing to make the crossover! Believe me, when there's 1200+ feet to go between you and the exit, and you're swimming (not scootering) the closer that next bottle is, the less you sweat!

Indeed a 'beautiful' sight coming back and seeing your tanks neatly awating you. The shimmer of their walls, the lettering confirming your name. I love that sight

 

[Meng_Tze]

I have to agree with Perrone on this one, HE is less forgiving.

For me the MAIN reason why He is less forgiving:
He diffuses more rapidly, making it form bubbles more rapidly. Missing/omitting deco stops on He gives you less margin of correction/ error. On Nitrogen based gas, you have time to fix the runtime schedule if you know what/where you are doing. With a He based gas.... you may already be 'bubbling'

 

[Meng_Tze]

As far as the conjecture part goes, Buhlmann did add his safety factor for He after bending people on the original algorithm (I think)

I believe so too... they came up too quickly for He's liking.... and it bit back

 

[TSandM]

Also my local instructor was involved in doppler experiements with divers doing 250-320ft dives in the caves in Wakulla when he was at FSU.

Don't know when this was. But I just finished Rec Triox, and my instructor told us that the research the WKPP has done with Doppler has confirmed for them that helium actually diffuses faster and that, far from penalizing the diver with additional deco, it may permit some reduction. GUE certainly is not teaching that helium is more dangerous or unforgiving than nitrogen.