Are the Super Wings too much?

[decoeric]

Just in case anyone wanted to remember where this thread got started, I quoted the original post. At least everyone was nice to the original poster as he requested.

I think it's time to close the thread, take a shower to get off all of this mud that was slung around and meet everyone at the bar for Mai Tais, Hurricanes, and hula dancers. I bought the last round, so now it's your turn!

Christian

Just think this entire thing got started because I tired to give a new diver a little advice that I found helpful to me... About getting wings with a little more lift like Dive Rite Super Wings and a SS BP, and I mentioned that I had dual bladder OMS 100lb wings. I know that the GUE DIR nazi's are highly against anything more than 55lb lift non-banded wings. Another incident of the close mindedness of that group of divers. No I am not a math major or an nautical engineer so I can't tell you how displacement effects lift, and no I didn't learn that in OW. Actually after reading through this entire thread, I can believe how many a$$holes there are in the tech community or at least in this thread... So sad... Help your fellow new diver don't rip on other people opinions...

 

[WJL]

Funny how it always starts as a three hour tour. This rounds on me.

I'm hanging with Ginger. The rest of you guys go talk to Mary Ann.

 

[northcoast_diver]

Just think this entire thing got started because I tired to give a new diver a little advice that I found helpful to me... About getting wings with a little more lift like Dive Rite Super Wings and a SS BP, and I mentioned that I had dual bladder OMS 100lb wings. I know that the GUE DIR nazi's are highly against anything more than 55lb lift non-banded wings. Another incident of the close mindedness of that group of divers. No I am not a math major or an nautical engineer so I can't tell you how displacement effects lift, and no I didn't learn that in OW. Actually after reading through this entire thread, I can believe how many a$$holes there are in the tech community or at least in this thread... So sad... Help your fellow new diver don't rip on other people opinions...

I am not a GUE Nazi.

If he wants big wings, thats fine with me.

I just have never needed more than 60 lbs myself.

 

[northcoast_diver]

Nova,

With all due respect. Even if you used 4 E8-130s with 520 cf of air, this would only be negatively buoyant by 42#.

A tiki bar with a Mai Tai and a couple of Hula Dancers does sound like fun though!

Christian

Exactly right.

Everyone needs to remember that air weights 0.08 lbs per cu ft. With helium mixed in it, it weighs a little less.

Your complete rig is normally neutrally buoyant, including your ditchable and nonditchable weight, but not including your gas.

If you take your total gas volume, and multiply by 0.08 lbs per cu ft, then that equals your negative buoyancy at the start of the dive. This in turn is the minimum lift that your wing(s) need.

The max is whatever you want to wear. Any more than the min is just going to float you higher out of the water at the surface when you fully inflate it.

For a scooter, add a little more, whatever the specs on the scooter are. For a camera/video unit, same thing. For a metal detector, ditto. A salvagers tool bag is the only thing I can think of that would really add a lot of weight.

 

[WJL]

Just think this entire thing got started because I tired to give a new diver a little advice that I found helpful to me... About getting wings with a little more lift like Dive Rite Super Wings and a SS BP, and I mentioned that I had dual bladder OMS 100lb wings. I know that the GUE DIR nazi's are highly against anything more than 55lb lift non-banded wings. Another incident of the close mindedness of that group of divers. No I am not a math major or an nautical engineer so I can't tell you how displacement effects lift, and no I didn't learn that in OW. Actually after reading through this entire thread, I can believe how many a$$holes there are in the tech community or at least in this thread... So sad... Help your fellow new diver don't rip on other people opinions...

C'mon Eric, that's not very fair. What got things heated up was your assertion that 55 lbs lift in a wing was not enough. For most "tech" dives with doubles, stages, scooters, etc., it is. The "DIR nazis" believe you should only use what you need. But as a matter of fact, none of the DIR people cares if you want to dive with a 100# wing or even two of them. It's A-okay. Go ahead. I understand that you like it. But just because you like it, doesn't mean that somebody else can't explain why they think it's overkill.

 

[Dan Gibson]

Considering that a Luxfer 80 starts 2# negative and ends 4# positive with air, it will drag at the beginning of the dive. Now replace it with helium and it is nearly neutral at the start of the dive. That is a good thing if you need to carry a lot of bottles. Nice try, but you are not correct.

The rest of your argument shows nothing but ignorance.

High helium mixes eh? How high is that? 50%? Typical numbers are a lot lower and represent the smaller portion of the "total" mix. The compressibility of He is also a factor if you want to split hairs. Either way, 3600 psi of any gas mixture is heavy.


Making statments from your own experiences has the added benefit of understanding what you are preaching from a first person perspective. If you can't diversify your diving, at least diversify your reading!


Actually, depending on where the rip is, you may still have emergency bouyancy. By the way most suit breaches are very tiny and hard to find and thinsulate can hold a surprisinig amount of water. Either way, I think the point is that you can no longer rely on bouyancy from the suit.


Spoken like a true armchair diver. Not exactly the "resting" deco one would aspire to. Extra work (stress, air-consumption) if you want to stay off the bottom.


Did you read that too? Maximum is your term. The discussion is about neutral bouyancy not salvage diving.

 

[gunnelfish]

Dive Rite's recommended air cell for double al80's is the Trek wing. It has 40 lbs of lift.

For double lp 104's they recommend the Rec wing 51 lbs or the classic wing 59 lbs.

The super wing has 77 lbs of lift and is recommended for double lp 120's lp 131's.

After reading eastcoastdiver post i checked out dive rites web page.

If you go by what Dive Rite recommends Yes the super wing is too much for what you need. http://www.diveriteexpress.com/bcs/

 

[Dan Gibson]

My 104s pump to 2700 with an AL backplate is 31# negative. That includes regs. Adding two more steel 104s (btw, they are essentially the same as the E8-130s. Just a small difference on how negative they are. Why anyone would dive 4 E8-130s is beyond me. You won't arrive at the numbers you claim. Do yourself a favor and buy a fish scale. Go weigh the rig and report back with your findings.

the whole diver, kit and all comes to about negative 80# at the start of the dive. also you might want to add 10# for regs on the 4 E8s

Is the big drink called a hurricane? I'll take two!!!

 

[Dan Gibson]

Call people Nazis is pretty pathetic. It just minimizes what really took place decades ago. Find another name to insult people. Calling people a$$holes just goes to show that the ones accusing DIR people of hurling insults are just as guilty if not more so.

Tech diving without an thorough understanding of displacement is just plain dangerous.

Just think this entire thing got started because I tired to give a new diver a little advice that I found helpful to me... About getting wings with a little more lift like Dive Rite Super Wings and a SS BP, and I mentioned that I had dual bladder OMS 100lb wings. I know that the GUE DIR nazi's are highly against anything more than 55lb lift non-banded wings. Another incident of the close mindedness of that group of divers. No I am not a math major or an nautical engineer so I can't tell you how displacement effects lift, and no I didn't learn that in OW. Actually after reading through this entire thread, I can believe how many a$$holes there are in the tech community or at least in this thread... So sad... Help your fellow new diver don't rip on other people opinions...

 

[MechDiver]

So sad... Help your fellow new diver don't rip on other people opinions...

When peoples "opinions" are based on information that is totally wrong, some of us will bother to point that out. Nicely, for awhile.

Oh, and I'm not DIR. But I did listen in OW class so I do know the relationship between buoyancy and displacement and how one affects the other. How you can presume to consider yourself a technically trained diver and not know the same is astounding to me.