Are the Super Wings too much?

[novadiver]

ripped suit and damaged wings - not likely but I guess that's risk management for some. I would not be worried about the scoot and other items (lights, stages, etc.) that can be sacrificed for bouyancy in an emergency either collectively as a team or individually.

True, but those full deco bottles are coming up.

 

[MechDiver]

At 6 ata (6 x 33=198 ) ( 198 - 33=165 fsw) ( 6 x 14.7= 88.2 lbs psi) that's a whole lot of water pushing down . now lets take into account that the air in the bladder is now 1/6 the volume it was on the surface, and my guess would be - the diver needs more lift to stay neutral.

Egad! Where do you people get your training

Depth makes no difference on rigid objects. That's OW class material.
Egad.

I could be wrong,but that doesn't happen often

Yea, right.

 

[decoeric]

Egad! Where do you people get your training

Depth makes no difference on rigid objects. That's OW class material.
Egad.



Yea, right.

I would not say that wings would be a rigid object...

 

[bwerb]

Phil...step away from the keyboard...

...why not get the biggest wings money can buy...huge...massive flapping wings...then if the laws of physics change, you'll be sure to have more redundancy than you'll know what to do with.

(sarcasm mode-off)

Stepping back to the beginning...something in the 55lb "range" should serve your needs adequately...part of the fun of being a diver is new gear...if you need a larger wing down the road...hey you get to have fun buying more! Or...another alternate suggestion would be to look at the larger Oxycheq wings which appear to have a very similar silhouette compaired to the smaller Oxycheq wings due to their expansion panels...just a thought.

 

[DEEPLOU]

Unless the wing generates an unacceptable wrapping situation what does it matter that he dives a 100# lift bladder?

Agree here also. That's the differrence between the Dive Rite and the 100lb OMS w/bungies.
The big Dive Rite will "Taco" a single tank. The bungies don't have significant problem w/ wrapping like this.

Maybe I made a mistake back when I first moved up to doubles w/ 100lb wing.
In NE w/ dry suit or thick wet suit, & dbl LP 112s could probably get by w/ 50-60 lb lift. Maybe even less. dry suit/7mm wet give their own bouyancy. (unless catistrophic dry suit failure)
In south w/rental AL tanks and 3 mm wet suit, could almost get away with 10 lb of lift (exaggerating)
In south w/my double LP 112s and 3 mm wet suit, need much more lift , maybe not the 100lbs,
but I am not ready to buy another wing at the moment.
IMHO too much lift can hurt, too little could be deadly

 

[jagfish]

In south w/my double LP 112s and 3 mm wet suit, need much more lift , maybe not the 100lbs,
but I am not ready to buy another wing at the moment.
IMHO too much lift can hurt, too little could be deadly

I guess this is one important factor in this discussion. Many sources recommend a drysuit when diving double steels...for the redundant/supplemental lift.

 

[headhunter]

I would not say that wings would be a rigid object...

I think MechDiver is referring to the tank in my example and not the "bladder" Novadiver talks about in the quote.

Christian

 

[Dan Gibson]

Go ahead and figure how many stage and deco bottles you need. I can tell you, it won't add up to needing that much lift. If you have that many bottles, you will need to be diving high helium mixes so they are near nuetral from the start or those will cause so much drag it won't be funny. The scooter will be close to nuetral if it is weighted properly.

Go look at the guys that carry the most equipment on a dive. That would likely be WKPP divers. They use 55# wings with way more than you are I would ever care to take with us.

I have to wonder when people mention the ripped drysuit. It won't cause you to become extremely negative if you have the right undergarments and use the proper amount of gas in the suit. Thinsulate is hydrophobic. It will provide space for gas to trap in your suit water will not fill that void. Just try putting sinking thinsulate. The shell suit won't loose any buoyancy. You may loose some buoyancy if you count the lost gas that is in excess of what you really need. Again, you don't need a lot of gas in the suit. Just take the squeeze off to the point where you keep the loft of the undergarments to where they were on the surface. I have flooded my suits at depth before and there is no casastrophic loss in buoyancy.

If you completey loose buoyancy of the wing, start getting rid of droppable items. If you are properly weighted, you will be able to swim yourself up, no problem.

This whole idea of needing maximum lift is nothing more than a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

I beleave the question was about entry level tech diving. I think that in entry level that the 60# wings would be more than enough. If there is the need to take multible deco bottles and a scooter , than the 60# wing would fall short of the lift needed to bring a dead scooter and all the bottles to the surface. Not to mention a dive buddy with a ripped drysuit and damaged wings.THen even the 100# wings might not be enough

 

[novadiver]

Go ahead and figure how many stage and deco bottles you need. I can tell you, it won't add up to needing that much lift. If you have that many bottles, you will need to be diving high helium mixes so they are near nuetral from the start or those will cause so much drag it won't be funny. The scooter will be close to nuetral if it is weighted properly.

Go look at the guys that carry the most equipment on a dive. That would likely be WKPP divers. They use 55# wings with way more than you are I would ever care to take with us.

I have to wonder when people mention the ripped drysuit. It won't cause you to become extremely negative if you have the right undergarments and use the proper amount of gas in the suit. Thinsulate is hydrophobic. It will provide space for gas to trap in your suit water will not fill that void. Just try putting sinking thinsulate. The shell suit won't loose any buoyancy. You may loose some buoyancy if you count the lost gas that is in excess of what you really need. Again, you don't need a lot of gas in the suit. Just take the squeeze off to the point where you keep the loft of the undergarments to where they were on the surface. I have flooded my suits at depth before and there is no casastrophic loss in buoyancy.

If you completey loose buoyancy of the wing, start getting rid of droppable items. If you are properly weighted, you will be able to swim yourself up, no problem.

This whole idea of needing maximum lift is nothing more than a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Well it must be true , because Dan G said it. I don't know why they even make the 100# wing? They should have talked to Dan first. Now everything is clear?

 

[northcoast_diver]

I guess this is one important factor in this discussion. Many sources recommend a drysuit when diving double steels...for the redundant/supplemental lift.

That is not why you wear a drysuit. You wear a drysuit in order to stay warm during inactive, motionless deco hangs.

The point is that a thick wetsuit will not keep you warm.

Many divers think their drysuit will give them adequate redundancy in the event of a wing failure. I consider this one of the many dumb ideas that has lately crept into tech diving. But you may believe whatever you want to believe, as long as you can (1) persuade the boat captain to condone your gear choice and take you out to the site, and (2) your buddy(ies) agree too. Nothing is written in stone.