Are Rescue Skills really needed by the average diver.... ?

[endurodog]

BWRAF - R = Releases. Your checking your buddies releases to make sure you know where they are, how they function, that they are fastened and how to get him/her out of their equipment if needed, this includes weights be it integrated or belts (my shop uses integrated but I have a weight belt that I show them). If someone didn't do this either they didn't get the basic OW training or the panic wouldn't let them think of it or it was a physical problem. This isn't extra stuff this is what is suppose to be taught in buddy check in basic open water, along with some other basic rescue skills taught in the PADI system in Open Water certs.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

That is a simple check. How many times do you have the buddy actually pull the integrated weights out or release the belt during the check? Not just to look at it and say yes it is there. And then how many times in the pool do you have them do it while the buddy or other diver is seeming to struggle to stay afloat? And how many times do you have the buddy teams do this with another diver?

In the OW class.

Not just follow some cutesy pnuemonic that when I speak with a new diver they can't remember because it was done in a lighthearted fun manner. Instead of telling them that if they don't take this stuff serious they could end up a corpse.

Again, would you allow your loved one to dive with this person knowing that if there was a problem they would have little idea how to help other than to call a rescue diver?

If not how can you in good conscience turn them loose unsupervised with a buddy from the same class?

Because that is what you are supposed to do. Not tell them they need to keep coming back for more classes. In reality they should never have to come back for that unless they want to. I looked into a number of fatalities involving newer divers and more than a few would not have happened if they had been taught what used to be Basic Rescue skills in the OW class. Panicked Diver at the surface, non responsive diver from depth, supporting a diver at the surface and helping them get positive, and rescue tow while stripping gear. These are what are taught in the OW classes I offer as mandated by agency standards. And I add buddy assisted no mask swims and ascents.

(But based on my research and observations buddy skills are not taught either in many cases. They may be talked about but then students are led on single file swims indicating that they are not important. So why should they be taught rescue right? But that's another discussion.)

It's an extra two hours in the pool tops. Not hard and I have 12 yr olds doing it with parents and much larger adults.


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[Bob DBF]

I believe that Rescue skills are needed by the average diver and are probably needed more by the less than average diver.

I believe 'rescue skills' are required by the average diver and I also believe that they're adequately covered in a typical beginner diving course. It's simply not that hard to release a weightbelt, yet some certified divers are apparently incapable when stressed. How would more 'advanced' rescue techniques save more lives if they can't remove a weightbelt?

With the kinder gentler ocean, most students are no longer stressed so the diving experience can be positive and easy. Stressing during training gives two good pieces of knowledge, first the student can understand how stupid one can get when the s**t hits the fan and two, the instructor can see the students coping skills when things go bad. With this information a better diver can be trained. Talking about and taking a written test about an incident is a whole different situation than experiencing one. Not all stressing is hazing, unfortunately too many divers see their first incident, and the stress that goes with it, without the benefit of an instructor.



Bob
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That's my point, people, by and large, are not taught that diving can be deadly, they are taught how safe it is, and they are not equipped with the skills, taught and trained to the level required to be useful in an emergency.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

How can teaching the above skills possibly result in fewer accidents when 90% die with their weightbelts on?

... how many of them died before they had a chance to remove it?

There's lies, damn lies, and statistics ... and in all three cases you can make them say pretty much whatever you want them to say.

Most accidents that I've been aware of since I started diving can be traced back to poor decisions ... either before or during the dive. People generally make poor decisions because they never learned how to make good ones ... once you eliminate the few who insist on being Darwin Award candidates. Equipment has little do with it. In a LOT of diving fatalities, removing the weightbelt wouldn't have saved the diver's life ... it would've simply made it easier to recover the body ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[equineannie]

Bravo! I think Rescue Cert is critical for any diver and always encourage. I have often found that OW & AOW divers have limited skill proficiency and over estimate their ability and confidence.

 

[Tigerman]

And I have often found that both rescue divers and DMs overestimate theirs, BADLY.
Out of the three divers Ive seen panicking, two where DMs and one where a rescue diver.
One of them I was able to get calmed down enough to get him to KINDA safely ascend, the other two decided to go for the surface...

 

[TMHeimer]

I agree with Jim. Perhaps we are talking about two kinds of divers. The ones who are not dedicated enough to practise the skills they are taught in OW, and those who are. Releasing weights is basic. Dealing with a panicked diver, etc. is not. Looking at it perhaps from a selfish viewpoint, I want to know ALL the rescue stuff if I have to deal with someone else's problems. For my first 25 dives I buddied with a fellow newbie--both of us without rescue (course) skills. I guess we either did as we were supposed to--dive within our training and comfort zone-- or were just plain lucky.

 

[Bob DBF]

For my first 25 dives I buddied with a fellow newbie--both of us without rescue (course) skills. I guess we either did as we were supposed to--dive within our training and comfort zone-- or were just plain lucky.

Luck shines on those with common sense.



Bob
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I may be old, but I'm not dead yet.

 

[endurodog]

That is a simple check. How many times do you have the buddy actually pull the integrated weights out or release the belt during the check? 2

Jim I have seen and understand you position on training and disagree with you. Call it cutesy or what ever you want it doesn't change the fact that some training has been given if the course is conducted properly.

I may self or anyone of my loved ones, friends, or so on I would allow to dive with someone with that training.

I refuse to sink any lower into your ongoing argument you have about how horrible present training is. I gave an example, accept it or not, cutesy or not.

 

[supergaijin]

Because that is what you are supposed to do. Not tell them they need to keep coming back for more classes. In reality they should never have to come back for that unless they want to. I looked into a number of fatalities involving newer divers and more than a few would not have happened if they had been taught what used to be Basic Rescue skills in the OW class. Panicked Diver at the surface, non responsive diver from depth, supporting a diver at the surface and helping them get positive, and rescue tow while stripping gear. These are what are taught in the OW classes I offer as mandated by agency standards. And I add buddy assisted no mask swims and ascents.

...snip...

It's an extra two hours in the pool tops. Not hard and I have 12 yr olds doing it with parents and much larger adults.

Jim, do you have a 'Rescue Course' available for your students that you trained as OW? An extra 2 hours of pool time will not result in a novice diver capable of rescuing much of anything IME.