Aquanauts CDC Pattaya, Course Director Roger Smith EXPELLED from PADI

[Spalpeen]

Our friend has a fair point, with the above snippet. I did share in the "ill-gotten gains." While there is a long history on several continents of "whistleblower" lawsuits and claims I could refer you to, let me simply post below what I wrote to PADI in my original complaint.

Finally, I must admit I am culpable in this false advertising in that I was the one who physically made changes to the websites and maintained them. However, as noted, I’m not a PADI member, I’m a very minor owner in the company and Smith is the founder and managing director. Thus, I was in many ways just an employee who was doing what he was told. The decisions behind these allegations came from Smith and he always had the final word and decision. ...

So is this complaint self-serving? Yes. Hypocritical? Maybe so. In need of remedy? Absolutely. No matter what you think of me or my role in all of this, these allegations are true, can be proved beyond the documentation provided here and absolutely must be addressed.

A fair and honest reply, and I can respect that. Finally, would you accept that although the business practices of Aquanauts may have fallen below acceptable standards, the standards of diver training and safety practiced on the boat were, at the very least, acceptable?

---------- Post added March 23rd, 2013 at 10:11 PM ----------

Whatever his reasons for posting, they were expelled from PADI. And you can try to deflect, that does not change this single and most important fact of the OP. Whether he dives or not, whether there were issues between him and one of the expelled members has really no relevance on the expulsion.

Rather than repeat myself I'll just refer you back to my post #16, page 2, first line.

 

[stevenl]

A fair and honest reply, and I can respect that. Finally, would you accept that although the business practices of Aquanauts may have fallen below acceptable standards, the standards of diver training and safety practiced on the boat were, at the very least, acceptable?

---------- Post added March 23rd, 2013 at 10:11 PM ----------


Rather than repeat myself I'll just refer you back to my post #16, page 2, first line.

You can refer or repeat, it still has no relevance.

Your other question here though is IMO an important question. Were there safety issues, or was the expulsion solely based on shoddy business practices? The answer to that question will probably elude us though.

 

[Ex-Aquanaut]

A fair and honest reply, and I can respect that. Finally, would you accept that although the business practices of Aquanauts may have fallen below acceptable standards, the standards of diver training and safety practiced on the boat were, at the very least, acceptable?

No, they were not. IDCs were not being taught to standard. Critical units, such as the DSD workshop, were never taught. PADI concluded that this failure to adhere to standards and required curriculum was part of its justification for Smith's expulsion.

 

[Spalpeen]

No, they were not. IDCs were not being taught to standard. Critical units, such as the DSD workshop, were never taught. PADI concluded that this failure to adhere to standards and required curriculum was part of its justification for Smith's expulsion.

As a visiting customer I had no involvement in instructor training, and since no one from PADI or Aquanauts has offered a different view I'll accept what you say as true. However, as recently as last month, just weeks before Aquanauts was expelled, two Aquanauts candidates passed the IE and were accepted as PADI open water instructors. I have to wonder why PADI was issuing instructor licences if they knew the candidates had not been properly trained. Is that indicative of PADI standards? How many PADI licensed instructors are there out there today who didn't do this DSD workshop but were licensed anyway?

---------- Post added March 24th, 2013 at 01:22 AM ----------

You can refer or repeat, it still has no relevance.

Your other question here though is IMO an important question. Were there safety issues, or was the expulsion solely based on shoddy business practices? The answer to that question will probably elude us though.

As a dive shop owner (You, not me) can you honestly say that all of your own paperwork is in order? Do all of your instructors have Thai work permits, for example?

 

[stevenl]

As a dive shop owner (You, not me) can you honestly say that all of your own paperwork is in order? Do all of your instructors have Thai work permits, for example?

Yes, they all do.

But you keep distracting from the subject with all kind of non related information and questions: they were expelled from PADI, a step that PADI does not like to make since it costs them money, lots of money, especially with a IDC Center, where lots of revenues for PADI are generated.

 

[Spalpeen]

Yes, they all do.

But you keep distracting from the subject with all kind of non related information and questions: they were expelled from PADI, a step that PADI does not like to make since it costs them money, lots of money, especially with a IDC Center, where lots of revenues for PADI are generated.

Interesting, given that in diving Thailand only issues work permits to company directors who employ Thai nationals, with a maximum of two per business. I don't know a single working instructor here who doesn't do visa runs, which means they are on either education or holiday visas. I'll have my wife ask her friend, the director of the Pattaya Immigration Office if they issue work permits to Farang diving instructors.
Anyway, I'll break the habit of a lifetime and repeat that I have no reason to question PADI's expulsion of Aquanauts. Don't make me say it again. I'll also repeat that I have a very big problem with the OP's misuse of a tragic death, under the care of an instructor and dive centre both certified by PADI, and his attempt to misuse that death to smear Aquanauts. I hope you can distinguish between these two issues.
I also have difficulty believing that PADI examiners were happily handing out instructors licenses to Aquanauts trainees while PADI had full knowledge that they had not been fully trained. That would make PADI either negligent or culpable. There are also serious insurance and liability issues here.

 

[lord khram]

Interesting, given that in diving Thailand only issues work permits to company directors who employ Thai nationals, with a maximum of two per business. I don't know a single working instructor here who doesn't do visa runs, which means they are on either education or holiday visas. I'll have my wife ask her friend, the director of the Pattaya Immigration Office if they issue work permits to Farang diving instructors.
Anyway, I'll break the habit of a lifetime and repeat that I have no reason to question PADI's expulsion of Aquanauts. Don't make me say it again. I'll also repeat that I have a very big problem with the OP's misuse of a tragic death, under the care of an instructor and dive centre both certified by PADI, and his attempt to misuse that death to smear Aquanauts. I hope you can distinguish between these two issues.
I also have difficulty believing that PADI examiners were happily handing out instructors licenses to Aquanauts trainees while PADI had full knowledge that they had not been fully trained. That would make PADI either negligent or culpable. There are also serious insurance and liability issues here.

This I would agree with, but as many of the 'instructors' working particularly in the Pattaya area are indeed people on IDC internships, so technically they are not working, they are themselves a paying customer under training, they do not receive payment for what they do, and do not need work permits. Having said that, I also know of instructors that work permanently at some Pattaya shops that do have all the correct permits and visa's to enable them to work legally, but Thai immigration regulations have no direct bearing on someone's competence to teach diving, indeed one particular shop that insists all their instructors are working legally is probably one that I would be least likely to recommend. Also aquanauts expulsion from PADI has nothing to do with compliance to Immigration issues, I dare say PADI would have no interest at all in such matters.

 

[Spalpeen]

This I would agree with, but as many of the 'instructors' working particularly in the Pattaya area are indeed people on IDC internships, so technically they are not working, they are themselves a paying customer under training, they do not receive payment for what they do, and do not need work permits. Having said that, I also know of instructors that work permanently at some Pattaya shops that do have all the correct permits and visa's to enable them to work legally, but Thai immigration regulations have no direct bearing on someone's competence to teach diving, indeed one particular shop that insists all their instructors are working legally is probably one that I would be least likely to recommend. Also aquanauts expulsion from PADI has nothing to do with compliance to Immigration issues, I dare say PADI would have no interest at all in such matters.

Agreed that immigration status has no bearing on competence. The reason I took a brief diversion down that road was to make the point that there is probably no foreign owned dive business in Thailand that can put it's hand on heart and claim to be squeaky clean. There's a guy I know who's been working for a Pattaya dive centre for several years who had a good chuckle recently when he told me that his ed. visa shows that he's in Thailand to learn scuba diving !

 

[jamiemac]

You've all missed the point, it's all about the money, money, all about the money , money.

In the olden days we used to swim around , look at fish and wrecks, take beginners under our wing and show them how to do it. Easy.

But now it's all about which organisation, fees, standards ( which change by the minute, depending on if there's another course and pic card that can be issued), dive centre ratings, bleeding trip advisor experts, etc etc

I'm glad I enjoyed the dive industry before it was run by non- diver business nerds.

I really don't see the problem, you make a commitment, know the price , pay the money , done deal.

Then things change and you want a refund. I just don't get it. You've made the deal , you've paid. It's a done deal . Move on.

PADI weren't getting their bit, that's all.

 

[stevenl]

Interesting, given that in diving Thailand only issues work permits to company directors who employ Thai nationals, with a maximum of two per business. I don't know a single working instructor here who doesn't do visa runs, which means they are on either education or holiday visas. I'll have my wife ask her friend, the director of the Pattaya Immigration Office if they issue work permits to Farang diving instructors.
Anyway, I'll break the habit of a lifetime and repeat that I have no reason to question PADI's expulsion of Aquanauts. Don't make me say it again. I'll also repeat that I have a very big problem with the OP's misuse of a tragic death, under the care of an instructor and dive centre both certified by PADI, and his attempt to misuse that death to smear Aquanauts. I hope you can distinguish between these two issues.
I also have difficulty believing that PADI examiners were happily handing out instructors licenses to Aquanauts trainees while PADI had full knowledge that they had not been fully trained. That would make PADI either negligent or culpable. There are also serious insurance and liability issues here.

Again distractions.

But yes, here on Phuket many, many of the diving instructors do have workpermits. Your information is simply incorrect.