Aqualung's stance on e commerce

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I suspect that the most ardent and vocal people who disagree with any changes in the current business model fall into two categories, the Hoser and the Hosed.

The Hosers are currently profiting from other people’s ignorance.

The Hosed are people who routinely get chumped financially by their shop, and now must now defend the shop’s stance or admit that they got taken.

And I’m not at all surprised that not one of you has been able to name any of the evil, dastardly online-only retailers that are putting the good LDS’s out of business. Why?

Well, gee, it’s a lot easier and a lot more fun to bash the nameless and the faceless rather than admit they don’t exist.
 
Penopolypants:
The Hosers are currently profiting from other people’s ignorance.

The Hosed are people who routinely get chumped financially by their shop, and now must now defend the shop’s stance or admit that they got taken.

I was installing a pair of spring straps for a customer/friend of mine the other day. I asked what the "other guy" charged for her fins and she addmitted she got taken...but she also commented about retail and she understands this as she is an owner of a multi million dollar retail operation of her own.

Ron
 
Now Mike,

We should acknowledge that Aqualung HAS a web presence. However, like many manufacturers, they are afraid of the openness that Internet communities thrust upon us. Openness in trade, openness in information, openness in the exchange of ideas. For years, they as well as other manufacturers have relied on being able to CONTROL the information disseminated to the diving public. Do you really think the gear reviews in the magazines are completely unbiased? If you do, you would be in the minority. Manufacturers (not just Scuba) have been able to orchestrate just what info the public receives and that paradigm has been SHATTERED. ScubaBoardians are in control over the quantity and quality of the information they get.

Yes, companies who advertise with ScubaBoard and more importantly those who spend time with us certainly enjoy some Tribal benefits. Fortunately, ALL companies are welcome to join the ScubaBoard tribe and can thus reap those same benefits, whether they be a manufacturer, a retailer or a much maligned e-tailer. The bottom line is that the online diving community EXPECTS to be listened to. They have questions and they want answers. They are not looking for a free ride, but they have exchanged biased reviews and releases for peer reviews and and a plethora of information. Companies that ignore this community will suffer financially. Possibly they will be able to overcome this, but there are a few who will not be able to weather this economic climate change just as the dinosaurs could not weather their physical climate change. It's time for some corporations to wake up and smell the cyber coffee! The internet rewards those who take the time to embrace it.
 
I don't see where it has to be either-or. We've been cranking along for decades with both mail order & the LDS. There are still plenty of LDS's around.

They run the range from utterly unacceptable to outstanding. I feel lucky to currently have 2 really great shops to deal with & I do take most of my business to them. But no matter how good a shop is, they're not going to be able to stock or do everything.

My primary LDS is one that does not do online sales, but works hard to compete. They don't promise to meet or beat every price on the net, they just ask for a chance to earn your business. I've found that quite often they do get me better prices than I can find anywhere else, so for the times they can't quite do that, I don't worry about it. Usually the prices are competetive enough that I'll just buy it there any way. The one exception is steel tanks, they just don't do enough volume on them to have any room to work with on those.

I've encouraged them to look into establishing an online store front for the brands they carry that allow it, but I don't think it will happen until they retire & the next generation takes over. If then. But setting up a secure online store is not cheap & it can be hard for a shop to make the decision to spend the money to do that.
 
Al Mialkovsky:
One of the issues I have with scuba board is they are a full time supporter of online stores. As far as I'm concerned it's the death of scuba. I'm grateful for companies such as aqua-lung and scubapro for their active support of brick and motar dive shops and I hope scubaboard does not do more damage than they have to their legion of discount dan shops.

Go ahead and flame away, matters not to me.


Al,

I still don't see how Aqua Lung's or Scuba Pro's policies will actually help the LDS if their competion is out there grabbing up the growing online sales.

If all dive manufacturers followed their policies and somehow they could stop online sales, yes that would preserve the old business model. But internet sales are here to stay and growing.

By creating a business model that ignores this huge change in the market, they are simply opening up the doors for those that have embraced it to take away their marketshare.

I don't have a problem with manufacturers trying to help support the LDSs, I do have a problem with them creating policies that ignore the internet as a distribution chanel. They absolutely need to find a way to leverage internet sales if they want to stay competitive in today's market.

For example (and I am sure someone will find a flaw in this suggestion) instead of forbidding online sales, they could set up a portal system that allows divers to register with a LDS website and buy a product that is shipped directly from the manufacturers inventory.

The LDS would get a commission on the sale and never have to actually carry the product for online sales in its inventory. The LDS would still carry a limited inventory in the shop for walk in customers and handle gear servicing and repairs.

There are still a ton of details that would need to be addressed in the above business model, but the point is that it is a concept that utilizes the internet instead of ignoring it. Even if the model is completely flawed, it is the kind of thought process AL should be going through as they look to the future instead of living in the past.

Mike
 
Ron Brandt:
For me it's not practical to have a large amount of stock and most gear is custom ordered...that way, I can offer up internet type pricing.

Ron

It was much the same for us. We kept enough stock to try to make the place look like a dive shop but a lot of what we sold had to be ordered because it wasn't on the shelf. A lot of that crap is still sitting in my garage too.

The difference was that when I offered anything close to internet pricing I got caught. LOL, I got caught like the very first time I did it too...what are the odds?

I gave a guy a good price. Rather than buy the stuff and shut his mouth, he contacted another dealer and said..."Mike will give me this, what will you do?". The other dealer promptly contacted the manufacturer who wasted no time getting on the phone with me to read me the riot act.

Our primary equipment market was students. The bulk of the equipment sold was masks, fins, snorkels and boots. I'd guess one or two out of every fifteen or twenty students baught a complete equipment package. Maybe about the same number would take more classes. Con-ed courses being a little more profitable since you don't need to rent pools and package in equipment.

The economics were simple. I had to round up enough students and teach enough classes to sell enough mask, snorkel and fin packages to cover the costs of teaching the class (course fees didn't do that) and pay the other bills.

One of these days I'd like to pull out all the old books and crunch some numbers and actually publish them but here's the way it shook out. When I first opened the shop, I hadn't been teaching that long and taught the way I had been taught to teach. I was cranking them out! There were days when I had OW classes, AOW and specialties all going at the same time. I had dive masters on both sides of the quarry (the deep and the shallow) getting students ready and I ran back and forth. I'd get one group in and out, debrief and jog to the other side of the quarry with my tank still on and get the next group in. During this time, I thought some of the numbers looked pretty good though keep in mind the money was still coming from equipment sales. We were doing everything to keep a full class roster...advertising 2 for 1 specials and whatever else I could think of.

It wasn't long before I started to see the problem with teaching like that...though I was a bit slow considering the taste I had gotten before we opened a shop. To make a point here, my wife was one of my most active teaching assistants I had and she was so scared when we had students in the water that she would do just about anything to get assigned to some kind of shore duty. So, we set out to teach classes that resulted in students with good enough skills that I could get my heart out of my throat and my DM in the water. I think we did pretty good of that judging by the skills of the students. The problem was that I couldn't get as many through so equipment sales went through the floor. Additionally, regardless of the effectiveness of the class, a few extra hours and a few extra dollars wasn't really what prospective students wanted. If every shop offers the same card one class isn't any more highly valued than another...especially if it takes longer and is more work. The next shop would quote shorter times and lower prices and that would be that. We were really proud of the way our students were diving but there weren't many of them. No students = no equipment sales to speak of.

All this time the internet just got bigger and bigger. More and more students came in with their mask snorkel and fins already in hand. Without selling just about everybody mask, snorkel and fins I had to sell stock to pay the pool rental because course fees didn't do it. I had lots of discussions with manufacturers and insurance companies trying to come up with a way to do business differently but they wouldn't have it. We explored lots of ideas like servicing gear whether the manufacturers would approve it or not, selling gear without being authorized and so on. All those things are done but there are risks and you need to have deep enough pockets and an adequate corporate viel so we decided against all that stuff. We even spent money having an online store built but we didn't have many equipment lines at the time that we could sell online. the ones we could sell on line, we still couldn't discount. I still have the CD someplace though he he he.

At this point we had a choice. Go back to playing the game as it had been dictated to us or get out. I got on line, sold some stuff breaking ALL the rules in doing so and locked the doors before they marched in and canceled all our dealerships.
 
I like my LDS. Yes I paid about a third to a half again what I could have bought my gear for from them. Could have, but chose not to with open eyes. I still view it as a value because they provided the infrastructure and the overall experience that my wife and I were looking for.

So I took additional training and look forward to more. I dive more. I've made friends with several of the regulars. I get air fills, 'local' dive trips and more experience. My spouse doesn't like to dive as much as I do, but she likes the folks there and the atmosphere. There's seldom any pressure to buy this or that, and I continue to purchase gear there because I choose to oo so. If that makes me a chimp, I'm a happy one. Sure I've purchased gear outside the shop and will continue to do so whenever I think it appropriate. Only the manufacturers create an all or nothing environment. I'm not going to go sell off my AL gear because I'm mad at them this month.

We support the growth of diving as an industry and a community; the how of that best occuring is subject to discussion. PADI acknowledges that there's more than one side to that business model. Good on 'em.
 
cerich:
Aqua Lung America’s Retail Philosophy Outlined Here.

Just another attempt to assuage the poor LDS who somehow thinks their customers will not shop and be informed before purchasing major equipment items. The so called "grey" market buys direct in most cases. The free market will prevail.
 
mdb:
Just another attempt to assuage the poor LDS who somehow thinks their customers will not shop and be informed before purchasing major equipment items. The so called "grey" market buys direct in most cases. The free market will prevail.


Aqualung might think it's supporting the dealers, but they are really hindering them.

For the Aqualung Legend LX
My local Aqualung dealer wants $595 and offers no discounts.
Leisure Pro wants $449. $150 bucks cheaper.

For the poor LDS's that try to compete with the Grey Market dealers and match LP's price, Aqualung suspends their dealerships for not following the price agreement in the dealer agreement. Pretty piss-poor corporation..
 
ScubaBoard started out prohibiting ANY mention of commerce. We tried to enforce this policy but soon found out that we were fighting a tide that was coming in FAST. It was almost impossible to figure out who was a business disguised as mere user and who was legit.

We solved that problem by embracing commercial entities here on SB and giving them areas where they can conduct there commerce. Sure, some abuse us and are here to get "free" access to our users, but that's OK. The benefits by far outweigh the negatives. It's a move I am GLAD we took.
 

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