Aqualung's stance on e commerce

[MikeFerrara]

Back to my question of how did Aqualung get its start....

Didn't they start off as US Divers? And didn't US Divers start by doing mail order dive gear during the 1950's since there were hardly no dive stores then?


If that is true, how is this different? The internet is just another form of mail order but has an online catalog instead of a print catalog.

You might be right but a lot has happened since then.

One advantage AL has with traditional dive shops is that they do their best to put the dealer in a financial position where most of what they will have on the shelf is AL stuff. They want people to walk in and only see Aqualung. Scuba pro does the same thing.

How? Primarily by what they charge to buy a dealership and what they require for anual sales volumes. When I had a dive shop, I really needed a big name. Tons of people in the area had AL regs because the shop that existed there before me sold AL almost exclusively for 20 years or so.

AL wanted almost 13K for an opening order (there were other requirements as well) and scuba pro wanted almost 18K. Scubapro expected you anual volume to be about that for starters but growing from there. I was a small shop in a limited volume area and needless to say that if I had put 18K into one SP or AL order and stocked their whole line, you wouldn't have seen much else in my shop. That is, of course, exactly what those dirty SOB's wanted. Naturally dealer pricing structures also contribute.

Walk into almost any LDS and note the brands that take up most of the wall. In many cases the lack of variety isn't by choice but rather because of what they can afford.

The manufactures just aren't going to have the same control with larger retailers. They just have a much larger volume, more money and they aren't going to be as easy to push around...AND when you pull up their website you aren't going to see just one brand. AL wants a shop full of AL gear and a guy behind the counter who will stand there and swear that no other brand is any good.

This control is what manufacturers like AL and SP are after.

 

[*Floater*]

I'm in a similar position to Crawl, except as a grad student I don't have a huge amount of income at the moment.

I cannot see myself buying from a company that doesn't allow internet sales. Even when I buy from the LDS I order it by mail because I don't have a car and public transport takes forever and would cost more than the shipping.

Also, I move around a lot. I'm in PA now for my degree but who knows where I will be next year. So it's not like I'm about to build a decades longs relationship with my shop (unless they are on the internet). And I need to be able to either send my gear in for service or to order the parts myself to service it, which is the main reason I went with Dive-Rite regs actually.

Luckily there are many high quality brands to choose from so I don't need to waste my time with Aqualung, Atomics or other similar manufacturers.

 

[CDNScubaMoose]

I think a point you may be missing is that many of the online retailers are providing great service. In some cases FAR superior to what you my find at your local dive shop and at a much more competative price. These days we can get both price and service.

Very valid point - I guess I was looking at service as being a bit more encompassing then product support (i.e. warranty) and including the other aspects that LDS's located in limited markets offer such as: organizing local, economical diving opportunties, getting air fills at economical prices (I'm not too keen on purchasing a compressor), being able to get my equipment serviced nearby. These are the things that I value and why I choose to support my LDS more then those stores that have an internet pressence. I don't consider it wrong to purchase on-line and in fact I have purchased some gear on-line. My main concern is that by having everyone rush towards buying on-line, is there a possibility that there is a consequence of this type of consumer attitude that we may be overlooking. I'm not saying that there is, just instead of running in that direction and condeming those that don't - I prefer to take my time.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I don't have any desire to discourage you from using your local shop but this is where I stand.

Very valid point - I guess I was looking at service as being a bit more encompassing then product support (i.e. warranty) and including the other aspects that LDS's located in limited markets offer such as: organizing local, economical diving opportunties,

I schedule my own diving which is generally a bit different from the diving the local shop organizes...if you can consider 60 miles away as local.

getting air fills at economical prices (I'm not too keen on purchasing a compressor), being able to get my equipment serviced nearby.

I service my own equipment and there isn't anything convenient or economical about getting fills from a shop. I generally mix my own gas although having to sell my compressor has put a real hamper on my diving. For most "local" diving, there are fills available on site so I still don't go to a dive shop.

I probably have enough gear to last the rest of my life but I do buy things like parts. So...I walk into a shop and say "I'll take 10 Apeks rebuild kits". And the gamoke behind the counter tells me that I'll die if I service my own reg, which is demonstrably false. Maybe he tells me that his dealer agreement forbids the sale of parts only, in most cases, I also know that to be false since I have had to read and sign many such agreements myself.

So, I walk into a shop and get overcharged (in order to finance the lousy training that they offer) as a lossleader and to make matters worse they lie to me.

Naturally, they don't even want someone like me on their dive outings where I might be talking to their customers...because I don't have the standard lies down pat and I would no doubt be a bad influence.

aboutThese are the things that I value and why I choose to support my LDS more then those stores that have an internet pressence. I don't consider it wrong to purchase on-line and in fact I have purchased some gear on-line. My main concern is that by having everyone rush towards buying on-line, is there a possibility that there is a consequence of this type of consumer attitude that we may be overlooking. I'm not saying that there is, just instead of running in that direction and condeming those that don't - I prefer to take my time.

Everyones situation is a bit different but your average shop has little or nothing to offer me and I'm not likely to be found in one, especially since I know what goes on in the back room. I can count the number of time that I've been in a dive shop in the last few years and that was because I was out of town and board so I thought I'd check out some dive shops...I wasn't surprised by what I saw or heard either.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Something about dive shop service.

In many areas a smallish dive shop can be a hand to mouth oporation. Maybe because of the market or because others sell the same stuff so much cheaper but, you sell a computer and maybe a bc and pay the rent. Then the guy who baught the computer decides he doesn't want it. You might want to give him his money back and make him happy but, you spent the money and don't have it. LOL Large volume and deeper pockets give you some room to work.

In our shop we provided quit a few services that I thought people would value. We let some of our divers use our facilities to do their own visuals, mix their own gas and even set up a few to do their own servicing...and helped them on the few occasions when they got stuck. Unfortunately none of that made me any money. Often when one of them wanted to buy something, especially a big ticket item, they still went where it was cheaper. In some cases they just thought it would be cheaper but never bothered to check. Oh, we were very busy day and night but there was no money in it.

What we needed was plain old sales volume. Other services needed to be their own profit centers.

One day, I told my wife that we needed to sell some stuff. Of course she knew that without me saying it. I told her my plan and she pointed out that if we got caught we'd lose our dealerships. Naturally I pointed out that our dealerships weren't doing us any good anyway.

I put the word out and started selling stuff mail order. In just a couple of months I made more selling to online friends than I did in a couple of years playing by the manufacturers rules selling out of the stupid shops. I paid off some debt and locked the doors.

Guess what? Divers continued to order stuff. Without a shop, I was paying more for the stuff but I also didn't have the expenses and this is the only time that I made any money, though, I still never made back my startup costs. We cut that whole thing short because it was only a matter of time before the sources we had would have cut us off anyway.

A dive shop might be able to pawn off over priced stuff on new divers (though that's changhing too) but the folks who have been around some just aren't going to pay inflated prices no matter how much they use your gas mixing equipment.

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

!Please. Martyrdom does not suit you.

Careful doc, might break your own tos there.

But false disclaimers suit you perfectly

 

[Ron Brandt]

I'm still miffed at their take on training being almost secondary...
Commmitted divers?? I my city of slightly less than 200,000 there are about 15 committed divers with about 6 being instructors...

There are lots of people that are cerified but most do not enjoy our 10 feet of average viz,so,they are vacation divers and most do not own their gear with the exception of mask,fins and boots.

For me it's not practical to have a large amount of stock and most gear is custom ordered...that way, I can offer up internet type pricing.

Ron

 

[The Chairman]

So, Mr Mialkovsky... just how many flames did you get? Zero, nada, zilch. I was right on target. Again, you supply us with a distraction rather than address the point I made in that post. So skip the red herring and show us just HOW we support the e-tailers over the retailers. We are looking for support of your fallacious contention, not just more "look at poor me" rhetoric.

 

[mike_s]

Pete, (NetDoc),

In view of Aqualungs announcment, I think you should make some changes at Scubaboard. (since the Internet is apparanty not the way of the future according to Aqulung).

here's what we would do if Aqualung ran Scubaboard:

1. We would all mail in our posts via the US mail.
2. Everyone must have their posts mailed in by Friday so Pete can compile post, print on paper, bind presentation, and get ready to mail.
3. Pete will USPS mail the Scubaboard postings out on Monday morning.
4. You only have 1 day to read everything if you want to get your replies back in the mail so he can get them by Friday and compile them for next weeks printing. Otherwise, your posts won't make it until next week.
5. Due to the huge amount of printing costs, labor for binding and stuffing envelopes, and USPS mail expenses, the cost of Scubaboard has now gone from *Free* to $12.95 per week. (Paypal not accepted anymore in the non-internet society. you have to mail in a check also).

If Aqualung ran things, this would be what happens....

This is a perfect example of Aqualung acting like new technology won't change the world.

Just imagine would the world would have been like if Orville & Wilbur has said, "ah screw it, that thing will never fly".

 

[danktex]

The fact is the market is changing, the times are changing blah blah blah. Since I started diving almost all my dive buddies have been met through ScubaBoard. Lots of people that my LDSes, I use a few of them, could not have possibly set me up with. When I have needed advice on equipment I get honest and varied advise here and other boards. At my LDSes only the equipment they sell is any good and all the rest is junk. I am not going to get rid of my computer and neither is anyone else. I will admit that the LDSes have giant hurdles to over come in order to effectively change their business models. The fact is most will close their doors. And I know I can't get my fills online but, supply and demand dictates that someone will open a fill shop and someone else a repair shop and instructors will have to have web pages in order to get students. If people want to be a part of the industry they will find a way. Not every business needs to stay in business. Some people lack the vision and creativity to adapt or even the simple drive to follow through. I can't tell you how many times I have ordered something at one of many LDSes and they forgot to order it, forgot to tell me when it was in or plain just did not listen to me when I told them what I wanted. I feel like an idiot when I order something from an LDS and it takes two months to get, when I could have got it for half the price in four days off of an online retailer. The Subatoys of the world will survive the others will go on to do other things and people will always continue to dive. The policies of Aqualung and Scubapro only give LDSes a false sense of security. When their profit margins fall far enough they will change them and leave LDSes high and dry or go out of business themselves. Either way their policies have really helped the average diver by encouraging other companies to start up to fill the void. Vote with your wallet and they will change their tune just like PADI.