1000 dives for instructor, 200 for DM as well as show proficiency in every aspect of diving they will be teaching.
. . . .my recommendation is based on having dove with several hundred different divers of varying experience from novice to more dives than me and certified to more extremes.
OK, thanks for the follow-up explanation. And, I can readily appreciate the background in which you make the statement. Nonetheless, and at some risk of creating a mis-impression, I suggest that this is the context in which you made the statement - your experience - but the response has nothing to do with a / the basis for the
specific numbers. The mis-impression that I want to avoid is that I am somehow trying to argue in favor of particular numbers. I am not. My point is that numbers are rather arbitrary, and there is no particular basis for 60, or 100, or 200, or 1000, or even 25. So, if someone says that '60 dives for DM is too few' - a subjective comment in itself, which started the thread - then what quantitative basis exists for saying that 200 dives is sufficient? None that I know of. If 200 is sufficient, is 199 too few? If so, why? Or, if 199 is 'OK, close enough', then is 198 also 'OK, close enough? Since there is no quantitative basis that I am aware of, other than personal preference, I see no predictable benefit associated with increasing the values, from 60 for DM and 100 for an Instructor, to some arbitrarily higher numbers.
And proficiency in environments from tropical and shallow to rough seas and mixed gas with extended deco.
And, what
documented relationship exists between ‘proficiency in . . . mixed gas with extended deco’ and competence as an Open Water Scuba Instructor? Should every instructor be required to have ‘tropical and shallow’ experience, even if they live in the PNW? Individually, I am not disagreeing with you on the value of the experience. At the time I became credentialed as an OWSI, I had at least experience, if not proficiency, ‘in environments from tropical and shallow to rough seas and mixed gas with extended deco.’ I had technical dive certification and experience, and I personally think this background helps me as an instructor. But, I can’t document that it has had any impact on the safety of my students, or their safety after certification.
I think my numbers reflect 2 things. One the DM candidate will have most likely have seen a years worth of seasonal variations. Two the DM candidate will have time to hopefully become proficient enough to qualify as a professional.
Both of these are very reasonable points but, again, unrelated to any specific number of dives. I personally like the idea of a required 'minimum of one calendar year of diving experience’, with documentation of logged dives being conducted in each quarter of the year', which I think would serve that purpose better than a particular number of dives. But, others may disagree.
in many occupations it would be years until you were trusted enough to be entrusted with other's lives.
True for the health professions, although primarily because of the bulk of the academic requirements, not just prior experience. Not necessarily true for certain other 'professional' pursuits, such as aviation. For many years you could conceivably occupy the right seat of a commercial airliner (usually a small regional), with less than 300 hours total flight time (the left seat captain required a higher minimum). The likelihood of a low time pilot occupying the right seat reflected primarily supply and demand – periods of high demand meant hiring pilots with lower hours. You could even go zero to hero at a FL flight training mill, and depending on the economy, find yourself in a commercial job early in your career. However, as a result primarily of the Colgan Air crash in Buffalo, Congress – in an apparent attempt to appear to be doing something / anything - passed legislation that required the right seater to have a minimum of 1500 hours of flight time. Sounds good - sort of a ‘let’s just bump the standards up a bit’ response. What is truly ironic about the situation is that the Pilot-in-Command of the Colgan aircraft at the time of the crash had over 3200 hours total time, while the right seater had over 2000 hours. Yet, the PIC made a mistake often associated with student pilots and low-time certificate holders – pulled the nose of the aircraft up instead of adding full power. The number of prior experience hours flown by the crew were irrelevant. An experienced pilot pulled the nose up and stalled the aircraft, sending it into the ground. Notably, the 9000+ hour first officer of the Air France 447 did the exact same thing, and neither he, the 11,000+ hour Captain, nor the 9000+ hour back-up first officer figured it out before the plane crashed in the sea killing all on board. Prior experience minimums - flight hours or logged dives - isn't necessarily a guarantee of professional competence.
IF there were a substantial number of injuries and deaths occurring annually in conjunction with scuba diving, I suspect there would be a serious effort to 1) regulate scuba diving and scuba instruction, and 2) adjust minimum requirements (e.g. logged dives) for certification, of both a) the diver and b) the instructor certifying the diver. There simply aren't substantial safety issues. As an Instructor, I can say I am 'entrusted with other's lives.' But, the likelihood of something untoward happening is actually quite small, and I have trouble identifying the correlation between my number of logged dives and the safety of my students.
One description of the aviation legislation was particularly telling, ‘the act is well-intentioned to generally enhance the level of qualifications for new airline pilots’, ‘although its mandates lack significant correlation to the causes of the accident’. And, that is the issue for the scuba industry. Despite well-intentioned calls to increase the minimums for dive professional credentialing, what ‘significant correlation’ can be demonstrated between the minimum number of required dives for certification as a DM or Instructor, and the overall safety of diving?