Apple Watch Ultra 2

[stuartv]

I'm not an Apple fan, but I feel they deserve credit for admitting it. Of course, it's not permanent. It probably depends on a rubber o-ring or gasket. The products aren't intended to be serviced (which is a separate problem), so eventually, the thing won't be water resistant anymore as that rubber ages and cracks.

That's just a guess, as I don't have handy FCC technical documents talking about the water resistance features to go by.

I would give them credit if they specified a service interval and offered service to maintain its "water resitance" indefinitely. (like Shearwater does) As it is, they just have documentation to cover their denial of coverage for when it floods.

 

[kimh]

@stuartv There are MULTIPLE 130' approach warnings you'd have to ignore, including strong vibrations, flashing red screens, etc, as you approach the limit. And of course, depth readings disappear – the kinds of things you MUST be aware of, even under normal circumstances. Not to mention all the up-front info/disclaimers.

Any death potentially related to an Apple Product would be a critical issue, regardless of specific legal status. A 3-trillion dollar company, with possibly the world's highest corporate profile – will generally use the best legal talent available to explore such potential vulnerabilities.

Just spitballing here.

Of course, you might still want to call them up to share your legal concerns.

 

[kimh]

The [Apple Watch] products aren't intended to be serviced…

False.

Apple Watch Ultra Gets Good News: iFixit Teardown Hints At Easier Future Repairs

It may be easier to replace the battery in your Apple Watch Ultra than in previous Apple Watches.

www.cnet.com

 

[kimh]

As it is, they just have documentation to cover their denial of coverage for when [the AWU] floods.

False.

Get a Depth and Water Seal Test for your Apple Watch Ultra - Apple Support

If you have an Apple Watch Ultra model and want to check that its depth gauge and seals are working properly, you can get a Depth and Water Seal Test from Apple.

support.apple.com

 

[kimh]

[Apple] installed an el-cheapo depth sensor that doesn't go below 44m because the feature is irrelevant for almost all AWU owners, and it was deemed good enough for the few target users, so they have to have the limitation. It's a sound business decision to save money on a very niche hardware detail.

That thing flapping about in the sky is clearly a bird, but if you insist it might be a government spy drone masked as a bird I have to concede that's theoretically possible. Not sensible or likely, but possible.

The first quote is 100% unsupported, and not too focused on the "theoretically possible" angle.

 

[scubadada]

@stuartv There are MULTIPLE 130' approach warnings you'd have to ignore...

Hi @kimh

You trust other divers much more than I do.

Divers run out of gas pretty frequently. We are all taught to pay attention, it's important.

Every year on charters in SE FL I'm asked 3 or 4 times why a dive computer is not working normally. It is usually because they went into deco, skipped a stop obligation, and went into violation gauge mode on the surface. For their no stop dives, recreational divers are taught to monitor their NDL, it's important.

And then, there is the recreational dive depth limit.

 

[stuartv]

False.

Get a Depth and Water Seal Test for your Apple Watch Ultra - Apple Support

If you have an Apple Watch Ultra model and want to check that its depth gauge and seals are working properly, you can get a Depth and Water Seal Test from Apple.

support.apple.com

LOL! Actually, no.

I said:

I would give them credit if they specified a service interval and offered service to maintain its "water resitance" indefinitely. (like Shearwater does) As it is, they just have documentation to cover their denial of coverage for when it floods.

The link you provided says:

If your Apple Watch Ultra has unseen damage, the Depth and Water Seal Test may leave the watch inoperable and may result in a replacement fee

So, they do not (apparently) have a specified service interval or offer a service to maintain its "water resistance" indefinitely. All they offer is to dunk it FOR you, so when it floods, it's in their hands, not during your dive.

It's still dead and has to be replaced.

Unlike Shearwater (just as an example), which does specify service intervals and does offer service to maintain the water integrity of their computers.

But then, Shearwater computers also do not have any designed-in conditions where they just stop working during a dive, either. Since Apple specifically notes that their water resistance is not permanent and they don't offer a service to maintain it, AND the test they offer will kill the AWU if the water resistance does turn out to be failed, I guess we can infer that is their explicit intention that people have use the AWU for diving have to replace it every few years?

It's ... nice(?) that they will allow you to pay them to perform destructive testing on your device for you.

 

[kimh]

You trust other divers much more than I do.

I doubt that.

It was a direct response to stuartv claiming that the AWU “unexpectedly” quits working mid-dive, when in fact the AWU uses every notification mechanism it has, to warn the diver.

Of course that doesn’t mean that the diver will notice – but – anything that any DC ever does – could then also be described as “unexpected,” regardless of any/all programmed warnings, documentation, training, etc. etc.

 

[stuartv]

@stuartv There are MULTIPLE 130' approach warnings you'd have to ignore, including strong vibrations, flashing red screens, etc, as you approach the limit. And of course, depth readings disappear – the kinds of things you MUST be aware of, even under normal circumstances. Not to mention all the up-front info/disclaimers.

Do you know how many rebreather dives (ostensibly more skilled and experienced than the target market you are asserting for the AWU) die from not having their O2 turned on? And do you know how many warnings they have to ignore and for how long they have to ignore them to actually die from not having their O2 on??

I certainly do not trust the target market you are asserting for the AWU to be any more "aware" than all those rebreather divers. Especially since the AWU does not show them their cylinder pressure, so the only thing they really need to look at it for is their NDL. Something I (having instructed numerous OW students) can easiliy foresee being overlooked far too much of the time.

What exactly is it that you think they would get blamed for, if their dive computer worked all the time?

@kimh: Still awaiting your answer on this. I'm not an attorney, so I am earnest in my desire to know the answer to this.

 

[stuartv]

I doubt that.

It was a direct response to stuartv claiming that the AWU “unexpectedly” quits working mid-dive, when in fact the AWU uses every notification mechanism it has, to warn the diver.

Of course that doesn’t mean that the diver will notice – but then – anything that any DC ever does – could also be described as “unexpected,” regardless of any/all programmed warnings.

What relationship does any of the AWU alerts and warnings have to the diver's expectations?

I interact with LOTS of fairly inexperienced divers. It is borderline shocking, and certainly disappointing, how many of them have no understanding of how their computer works and largely ignore it, even if it is beeping and vibrating in a most annoying way.

What @scubadada alluded to with people getting back on the boat and asking others why their computer won't stop beeping (if they even noticed that it's their own) is not made up or exaggerated.

VERY few (in my experience) divers actually read the manual for the dive computer they are using. At a depth where their computer might be trying to warn them about going too deep they WILL be narced and usually be unable to read what message their computer is displaying and then actually process and understand it. Especially if they are among the majority who didn't read the manual.

Narcosis is real and it seems to hit harder on the less experienced divers (apparently, the AWU's target market). Suggesting that they will see/feel/hear the alarms at 30+ meters and understand "oh, I'm about to go too deep. I should stop descending and maybe go back up" is giving them far too much credit - in my experience.