Apparently hovering is physically impossible

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Large, slow, deep, long breaths are not helpful, and apparently should be avoided?
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That shouldn't be surprising. Yet I suspect I know why it might be puzzling to new divers. Embedded in the new diver's mind is his instructor's urging not to breathe too shallowly and/or rapidly and thereby risk hypercapnia, etc. A new diver might over-do this well-meaning advice and take "large, slow, deep, long breaths" instead of simply avoiding small, rapid, shallow, short breaths.

The best advice I got from my instructor was to breathe underwater more or less as I would on land. Sure, thinking about or imagining the lungs "filling" with each breath--in a yoga or meditative sort of way--may help make sure one takes full breaths. But it should feel like normal breathing.
 
Alright, first post on this forum...I've spend A LOT of time reading, but figured as a spanking new diver I have a lot more to learn than contribute.

That being said, I felt compelled to jump in here...because I can identify with the OP. During my OW Cert, it was drilled over and over again "Never hold your breathe". I got it...never means never. Then when we started working on buoyancy, I felt like a failure. Watching him in the water with me, hands clasped, perfectly still hovering a few inches over the bottom of pool will I was up and down..you get the picture. We talked about it after I surfaced and through the discussion, and I came to the conclusion that while holding breathe is a bad thing (even at a constant depth...I see it as just a habit to stay away from), PAUSING you breathe is okay, and the key to "timing" the rises and falls in water position while breathing. After that discussion, I found it much easier (in the "learning" environment) but still felt like I was a hot mess and had a lot of work to do.

Fast forward 2 weeks. First dives outside of the OW class on a trip to Grand Cayman. Maintaining my position in the water column...at depth and even while on the safety stops, was a breeze! I think the issue that sometimes people miss is that in the class setting, especially OW since it's usually the first introduction to diving, those basic skill are a lot more difficult than in the "real world". Your in a foreign environment, being fed totally new information with a shotgun, and when it's time to demonstrate those skills there is always a bit of performance anxiety because you fell like (an are to an extent) being evaluated. I actually had a lot of anxiety in the day or so leading up to the first Cayman dive....because in the OW class, there was very little time to actually experience and enjoy diving. Time in the water was spent learning, demonstrating, being evaluated...something is always going wrong (mask floods, lost reg, out of air, etc). But I quickly discovered that once, at least for me, I was out of the class environment the skills learned were almost at that point second nature...and the diving was more enjoyable and less of a task that I could have imagined.
 
That being said, I felt compelled to jump in here...because I can identify with the OP. During my OW Cert, it was drilled over and over again "Never hold your breathe". I got it...never means never. Then when we started working on buoyancy, I felt like a failure. Watching him in the water with me, hands clasped, perfectly still hovering a few inches over the bottom of pool will I was up and down..you get the picture. We talked about it after I surfaced and through the discussion, and I came to the conclusion that while holding breathe is a bad thing (even at a constant depth...I see it as just a habit to stay away from), PAUSING you breathe is okay, and the key to "timing" the rises and falls in water position while breathing. After that discussion, I found it much easier (in the "learning" environment) but still felt like I was a hot mess and had a lot of work to do.


Jump right in.. the water is fine. An occasional shark may appear, but there are enough dolphins around to keep safe...

Your comment demonstrates how the phrase "don't hold your breath" is somewhat overkill, and wrongly assumed to mean never stop inhaling and exhaling. I've learned that it really means is "keep your airway open" to prevent air-expansion lung trauma. You've figured this out with your instructor. Pausing breathing by controlling your diaphragm is a useful skill: deep-breath and pause to go up, deep-exhale and pause to go down, half-breath and pause to sneak up for a photo on that little fish.

The "don't hold your breath" rule is really about using the strongest and simplest message to prevent people from closing their epiglottis. There is a lot to teach in the OW class, and sometimes complete nuanced understanding of everything is not possible, so such blanket rules are used to prevent injury and death.
 
It appears that if I want to actually know how to be a proficient diver, I need to sign up for an untold number of additional courses, for a fee of course, whereupon the mysteries shall be revealed.

I think the mysteries are revealed simply by getting in the water and practicing!
 
I have to admit, I have not read the entire thread. The best analogy that I can think of is to go out and catch a pigeon. Club the pigeon into unconsciousness and thrown off of the roof. Notice that without being conscious the pigeon falls to the ground. Buoyancy control is very similar. There's a certain amount of thought required by the pigeon to make sure it flies. The same is true for buoyancy control. When you are good at it you will not even think about it.
 
Alright, first post on this forum...I've spend A LOT of time reading, but figured as a spanking new diver I have a lot more to learn than contribute.

That being said, I felt compelled to jump in here...because I can identify with the OP. During my OW Cert, it was drilled over and over again "Never hold your breathe". I got it...never means never. Then when we started working on buoyancy, I felt like a failure. Watching him in the water with me, hands clasped, perfectly still hovering a few inches over the bottom of pool will I was up and down..you get the picture. We talked about it after I surfaced and through the discussion, and I came to the conclusion that while holding breathe is a bad thing (even at a constant depth...I see it as just a habit to stay away from), PAUSING you breathe is okay, and the key to "timing" the rises and falls in water position while breathing. After that discussion, I found it much easier (in the "learning" environment) but still felt like I was a hot mess and had a lot of work to do.

Fast forward 2 weeks. First dives outside of the OW class on a trip to Grand Cayman. Maintaining my position in the water column...at depth and even while on the safety stops, was a breeze! I think the issue that sometimes people miss is that in the class setting, especially OW since it's usually the first introduction to diving, those basic skill are a lot more difficult than in the "real world". Your in a foreign environment, being fed totally new information with a shotgun, and when it's time to demonstrate those skills there is always a bit of performance anxiety because you fell like (an are to an extent) being evaluated. I actually had a lot of anxiety in the day or so leading up to the first Cayman dive....because in the OW class, there was very little time to actually experience and enjoy diving. Time in the water was spent learning, demonstrating, being evaluated...something is always going wrong (mask floods, lost reg, out of air, etc). But I quickly discovered that once, at least for me, I was out of the class environment the skills learned were almost at that point second nature...and the diving was more enjoyable and less of a task that I could have imagined.
My OW course experience was somewhat similar.

I was having an absolute nightmare trying to hover (shifting up and down by feet either way) and ended up trying to achieve it for about 20-30 mins. Was forced by my instructor to have a lunch break, relax and come back in an hour. Came back after the hour a lot more relaxed and tried it again but timing my inhalations/exhalations better - lo and behold I was hovering within a few inches of the target mark within a minute or two.

It is a combination of volume of breath, timing, relaxation & depth that all combine to get that sweetspot :
1) Volume of breath - maintaining enough breath flow to allow good airflow but not overbreathing
2) Timing - realising the moment of momentum change with the breath and knowing when to change from inhale to exhale or vice versa
3) Relaxation - very easy to get tense during these exercises which has a tendency to affect volume of breath
4) Depth - has a large effect on the size of the buoyancy swing. The same amount of gas will have a far larger effect near the surface than it will at depth. The full breath that on the surface might move you 3-4 feet each way at depth might move you a few inches even with the same timing.

Once you "get it" it seems easy but getting there can be difficult.
 
Apparently the first course is just to provide basic familiarization. and to help keep you from accidentally killing yourself or your buddy in an emergency situation?
Yes! To a great extent, that is quite true. I tell OW students that, at the very best, their initial Open Water Diver certification is (only) a Learner's Permit. Put another way, in the OW course, the student should learn what they need to learn, in order to begin to learn how to dive. Whether you go through a semester long OW course as a university student, or a 3+ weekend course as often taught today - across multiple agencies, in fact - you simply do not come out of the OW course as the diver you (hopefully) WANT to become, and (ideally) WILL become IF you go out and practice what you have learned. Even if you achieve mastery of the skill in training - i.e. you can perform it repeatedly with a minimum of difficulty and without assistance - that doesn't mean that you will be able to do it from that point on. DevonDiver's description of the development of buoyancy control is very appropriate - it is an evolution from conscious to unconscious (or subconscious), from adjustment to stillness. Every diver also has to learn what works best for them, what breathing pattern is optimal for them. And, that takes time. It is interesting to note that one poster appeared to dismiss the notion of the time required by linking a video of the UTD Extreme Scuba Makeover course - which is a great experience by the way, and does represent another course, in that case for ALREADY CERTIFIED DIVERS. It is interesting because AG himself (founder and head of UTD), repeatedly emphasizes, in another video describing the ESM concept, that '‘We’ve got to build each step, slowly, slowly, slowly, slowly’ (did he say 'slowly' enough times), and that the course itself does not create the skills - the diver must have the attitude of, 'Man, I’ve got to cement these skills, I’ve get out and practice. And, that’s the best part, go out and practice, cement those skills and get them hammered into yourself.’
It appears that if I want to actually know how to be a proficient diver, I need to sign up for an untold number of additional courses, for a fee of course, whereupon the mysteries shall be revealed.
Not necessarily. In fact, a lot - if not most - of the burden of development of proficiency is on you. I have taken a lot of courses in my adult life, beyond primary training, in my primary profession, in scuba, in aviation. In scuba, I continue to take dive-related courses, I continue to participate in webinars, attend seminars, etc. Learning doesn't stop at the point of initial credentialing - if anything it really begins there. But, I will also say that EVERY dive for me is a training dive, whether I am teaching, whether I have a specific 'mission', or whether I am just swimming on a Caribbean reef looking at pretty fish. And, I went through some of the very same issues you describe - trying to figure out how to breathe, and realizing that l-o-o-o-n-g, slow, d-e-e-p breaths were - for me - not the best way to maintain good buoyancy, and that simply breathing more oir less like I do on land was the best approach. For that matter, EVERY flight is a training flight, whether I am on a cross-country trip for business (mission-oriented), or just flying around the local AP.

One additional observation:
Javik:
I am coming more and more to the conclusion that buoyancy management for new divers like myself is being taught completely wrong
I taught biostatistics for many years. I would tell students at the beginning of the first class, every semester, that how students learn is very individualized. I can explain a concept one way, and 75% of the class will 'get it'. If I then explain the same concept a second way, another 20% will 'get it'. I may have to explain the concept a third way, even a fourth, in order for all students to 'get it'. And, even then, some students have to go home, think about what was said, maybe come to the next class and ask questions, in order to understand the concept. So, I am not sure the way buoyancy is taught in the OWD course is 'wrong'. In fact, the way you go on to describe how it should be taught seems to be quite similar to how I, and apparently some other posters in the thread, teach it. But, it apparently was not right - for you. You may be in the 20% that need a second explanation, or the 5% that need the third, or fourth explanation. Nothing wrong with that, it is what it is. In any course, some students will hear certain things and lock onto them. For example, 'Never hold your breath.' Yes, that is often stated, just that way. Perhaps, a better way to say it for some is, 'Remember, always breathe.'
This was not explained in the PADI OWD course at all.
When you say 'This was not explained . . ' I presume you are referring to Nirvana's post. And, I cannot say that the concepts are explained in those exact words in the PADI OWD course (or any other OWD course for that matter). The concepts of drag, delayed response in buoyancy associated with breathing, etc. are certainly supposed to be taught in the PADI course and presumably others. But, none of us were present in your OWD course, so you have the advantage of the experience.

The fact that you showed up on SB, that you took the time to start the thread. and make the comments that you did, is great. You have a new Learner's Permit, and you are now beginning to learn how to dive. Please, keep it up.
 
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The OP should take a GUE Fundamentals course to help find that sweet spot.

I disagree. As noted above, taking an Extreme Scuba Make Over (ESMO) type of course will be much more beneficial. I took the Fundies class years ago and consider it one of the best courses I ever took. ESMO is a much better option in this case.

Buoyancy is the most challenging skill. Some people pick it fairly easy, others take a little bit longer. What I don 't see among recreational divers are those who want to take the time to practice and play around with buoyancy.
 
...Although, it does appear "Mr. Neutrally Buoyant Turtle" is kicking up some silt there... Who taught this guy to dive? Geeze.

One should never use a turtle as an example of proper buoyancy technique ... some of them obviously learned how to dive by kneeling on the bottom ... :(

IMG_7035.jpg


... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 

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