Suggestion App for ScubaBoard

[ScottishTapWater]

It would be great if there was an app for this forum (if there isn't already, I couldn't find one).

If there's an open API I could use, I'd happily make a free one if people were interested.

 

[ontdiver]

As a gentle voice in favor of an app….we’ve talked a lot about scuba diving as an aging community of divers, and how to bring younger divers into the hobby. Right now those younger divers seem to be congregating at Reddit’s r/scuba. I’m a college prof - the young folks are on apps, whether we like them or not; I’m not sure many are even aware of the existence of old-school discussion board websites like ScubaBoard (yeah, we’re old school at this point!). I don’t think it’s an accident that OP is himself in his 20s, and sees the need for an app where many of us older users don’t.

If we want to bring younger divers into the fold, making Scubaboard accessible to them is a huge potential service we can do as a community. Long-time users here probably won’t use or need an app - if we did, we wouldn’t still be here (aka “survival bias”). But if we want to bring younger divers into the fold, and keep them here, an app is one relatively easy step in that direction.

Those pondering the path forward may want to consider this as an opportunity to not only get ahead of the curve, but to ensure that the SB torch is passed along seamlessly to the next generation.

I suspect that there are those with the necessary skill sets in the younger demographic who would be happy to support the tech side of things. I say this not having the foggiest idea of what is involved but hoping that the tremendous value of SB is enough to keep it running for years to come.

If you need a bit more convincing, check out Reddit r/scuba https://www.reddit.com/r/scuba/

 

[ScottishTapWater]

Which functionality would an app provide, that's not provided by the webserver (web-based mobile pages)?

Over the last decade, html5 has been developed to eliminate the need for a separate app, which requires both an android and ios version. Stylesheets and javascript/jquery have been developed with a strong focus on mobiles. One of the most-used products for that is Bootstrap - pages are designed mobile-friendly and reactive, so they display nicely formatted regardless of your platform and browser.
Push notifications can be sent to your device (desktop/tablet/mobile) if you choose so.

If there's no answer to my question, then an app would be nothing but a webbrowser with a SB logo, and it would always be behind on technology additions in new mainstream webbrowser versions.

I fundamentally disagree with a lot of that. Yes, mobile websites are better than they used to be but they still aren’t as good as native apps for a plethora of reasons. If that weren’t true, why do so many major corporations still make native apps rather than just directing people to a mobile site? Also, who says it has to offer anything the website can’t? Some people, myself included, just prefer native apps for this sort of thing.

Although if you can tell me how I can get SubaBoard notifications to show up as push notifications on my phone, I’ll be pretty chuffed.

 

[ScottishTapWater]

Just so everyone is aware, I’ve got the go-ahead from The Chairman to start using the API to explore the feasibility of this issue.

If anyone wants to help, please let me know.

Nothing will be formally released until he’s seen and approved of it but I do intend on building it on GitHub so if people want to help, they can.

I don’t anticipate this being a quick project btw.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Best of luck, @ScottishTapWater.

 

[Miyaru]

Although if you can tell me how I can get SubaBoard notifications to show up as push notifications on my phone, I’ll be pretty chuffed.

Click on your profile (top right, left of the email icon), select preferences, scroll down to Push notifications.

Just so everyone is aware, I’ve got the go-ahead from The Chairman to start using the API to explore the feasibility of this issue.

If anyone wants to help, please let me know.

Nothing will be formally released until he’s seen and approved of it but I do intend on building it on GitHub so if people want to help, they can.

I don’t anticipate this being a quick project btw.

I'll be following this. Any technical questions - ask.

 

[therookie]

As a professional software developer with a few decades of experience, I've been following this thread since inception with considerable interest.

I can testify that in recent years this issue of "device specific app vs well-designed HTML5 app/site" comes up often. One of my clients is in this exact situation - customers requesting apps for their phones instead of the HTML5-based web application that well supports mobile devices. They have resisted thus far primarily because with the device-specific apps the developer puts themselves at the mercy of the operating system designers - every update/bugfix of the OS runs the risk of a breaking change in the app - and they don't have the resources to dedicate to those issues. Maybe Apple/Google will advise you of the breaking change. Maybe they won't. In my experience, HTML5 is more resilient in that regard - it's very rare that an OS update breaks an HTML5 app.

So that's one risk - a breaking change that leaves the app broken and unhappy users (with corresponding negative reviews on app stores). There are others. It's one thing if you have a paid staff of developers working on things anyway. ScubaBoard doesn't strike me as having that type of resources, though. From what I read (particularly when issues come up like the double-posting bug we had a while back, or the amount of time it takes for moderators to approve classified threads and process the voluntary support payments) indicates to me it's run and maintained by volunteers. The tagline "All about scuba diving, by divers, for divers" supports that conclusion too. It's actually one of the things I love about this place - even the IT guys are divers!

There's definitely the possibility of increasing traffic to SB, to the benefit of all, if the younger demographic that grew up in a totally different world than I did (and can type accurately almost as fast with two thumbs on their phone as I can with all ten fingers on a keyboard) starts to engage via an app when they wouldn't via a website. That increased traffic brings its own risks, though, depending on how well the servers that support SB are provisioned. Increased traffic can lead to more costs in server infrastructure in order to keep the site running and responsive - a great consequence in a commercial site, but perhaps an unintended and problematic consequence in one like this.

There are a lot of considerations, both positive and negative, besides these here, and I'm sure The Chairman has excellent people to advise him. SB has survived a long time through a lot of changes in the industry, and is a very well-designed site with some excellent features - that doesn't happen by accident. But I wanted to add a few PSI to the conversation.

 

[stiebs]

I'll also weigh in as a long time software developer, product owner and and IT director, as well as opensource contributor, supporter and aficionado.

It is one thing to hook into an website backend API. It is an entirely different beast to build a distributable app to to do it. Especially as a single developer. And let's be honest with ourselves here, even if published on github, the number of single-developer projects on github is immense. And the number of defunct or abandoned ones is even bigger.

To get it usable beyond the single developer sandpit, it needs to:
- be less buggy that the native HTML5 version
- provide a UX that is better than the HTML5 version
- keep up with Android / iOS changes and requirements
- keep up with Xenforo API changes / updates
- rely on new / updated Xenforo features being added to the API
- will any customisations or Xenforo add-on modules that SB uses decrease UX if not implemented on the app?
- will the app also show the SB ads? This is an annoyance for non-paying users, but an important income stream for SB. Either the app will need to be for subscribers only, or it will also need to include ads.

As has been asked already here .. what will an app provide that the web browser doesn't?
How will the UX on the app be better than the mobile browser version?
You can already use the built-in mobile browser feature of "Add to Home Screen" to add a launcher button that make.

There are some excellent reasons to make an app. Usually when integration with phone hardware or other apps is required to achieve the desired UX. That is seldom the case for a forum.

 

[tc]

It is an older app that works great with Vbulletin systems. I used it a lot during the big forum days in early to mid 2000s.

They supported scubaboard until the xenforo switch.

Actually they never supported Scubaboard. I was the one that compiled the app (with Howarde’s direction and help). After a LOT of screwing with the code got it working just in time for them to “upgrade” and forcing us to start over.

Once it finally got published to the App Store we took nothing but criticism for features or lack of features on an app that was just supposed to offer a simple interface for users.

Never again.

 

[jseyfert3]

I'm 34, been using a cell phone since I was a teen, computers since before I was a teen, and I agree with the older folks here: What, exactly, would an app provide that the mobile site doesn't?

I've used tapatalk before. I only really liked it for forums I was on that used Simple Machine Forums software or similar. I liked SMF on a PC, but gosh was it terrible on mobile. XenForo, however, has been mobile friendly for a long time. I stopped using tapatalk when the forums I frequented switched to XenForo.

I'm just not a fan of apps for the sake of apps. This happens on PC too. People make apps that are really just a web browser in an application shell...a worse web browser than Firefox/Chrome/etc. And I've been burned by a lot of apps on phones that are worse than the mobile website. The worst of this is when a website had a perfectly functional mobile website, they introduced an app that was much worse than the website, and then they canned the mobile website.

What's a good app? Something I want to use on my phone or PC without the need to connect to the internet. What's a bad app? Something for my phone or PC that does the exact same thing a website does. Since a forum pretty much relies exclusively on connecting to the internet, I fail to see any benefit over the website.

All that said, I'm always happy to be proven wrong.

I fundamentally disagree with a lot of that. Yes, mobile websites are better than they used to be but they still aren’t as good as native apps for a plethora of reasons.

Can you describe the "plethora" of reasons that mobile websites aren't as good as native apps? There definitely can be some, but more often I've just seen worse versions of mobile websites, so I'm not very pro-app.

If that weren’t true, why do so many major corporations still make native apps rather than just directing people to a mobile site?

Could be a lot of reasons. The app could make it harder for users to block ads. It could provide lots more metadata about users to the corporation than a mobile website could. It can easily pop up notifications, which could boost user interaction, and therefore money, to the corporation.

I can think of a lot of benefits like this for the corporation, but fewer reasons for the end user.

Prime example is Facebook messenger. They had Facebook messages perfectly functional as a mobile website. Then they introduced the Facebook Messenger app. Then they killed the mobile access to messages in Facebook. And they killed it hardcore. On a phone? Sorry, the previously perfectly functional messages on a web browser just directed you to the app store. For a while you could get around it with requesting the desktop website on your mobile browser, only now it was terrible because the great mobile website for messages they had previously, was the desktop version of messages, which isn't great on a phone screen. Then Facebook killed that workaround too. Personally, I just gave up using Facebook messages unless I was on a PC, but clearly they very much wanted not to give people a choice, but to make people get the mobile app.

In short, I'm 100% certain major corporations make native apps to make money, not because it's a benefit to the end user.

Some people, myself included, just prefer native apps for this sort of thing.

Genuinely curious, why?

 

[Tracy]

Actually they never supported Scubaboard. I was the one that compiled the app (with Howarde’s direction and help). After a LOT of screwing with the code got it working just in time for them to “upgrade” and forcing us to start over.

Once it finally got published to the App Store we took nothing but criticism for features or lack of features on an app that was just supposed to offer a simple interface for users.

Never again.

Very possible.
I will say this. I used it to browse Scubaboard and I personally had no issues with it.
I liked the interface.