Apeks - Nothing to gain

[Hoosier]

I posted a question about the failure point, swivel design, in other thread. Only one member actually saw and experienced it one time. I don’t think the swivel design as another failure point.



I believe that there is no difference between ATX200 and ATX50. But, the re-sale value is also different, so it is not a quite bad investment.

Bingo, routing is where the real difference is...
However, there are some other prefernces out there as well. The DS4 first stage is favored by tek divers due to the simplicity, lack of unneccessary failure points (like a swivel) and possilbly easy servicing.

The ATX 50 swivel first stage is sometimes favored as a deco stage reg due to the swivel which allows the reg hose to swing easily between the stowed and deployed positions. ...

 

[Xman]

I posted a question about the failure point, swivel design, in other thread. Only one member actually saw and experienced it one time. I don’t think the swivel design as another failure point.

Hmmm, having recently had my scubapro Mk20 swivel first stage literally blow in half I personally see the swivel as a failure point.
If it can fail, then it is a failure point. The fact that you have not heard of it happening often means that it is an unlikely failure point, but a failure point none the less.

I actually prefer the TX100 second stage to the ATX200. I like the wider exhaust tee. I guess the slightly less bulky ATX200 second stage makes a nice bungied backup.

 

[Hoosier]

Wow, I can't belive that. What happened?
Did you contact SP for the warranty service?

Thanks for sharing your experiences. Now, I can see the point.

Hmmm, having recently had my scubapro Mk20 swivel first stage literally blow in half I personally see the swivel as a failure point.
If it can fail, then it is a failure point. The fact that you have not heard of it happening often means that it is an unlikely failure point, but a failure point none the less.

I actually prefer the TX100 second stage to the ATX200. I like the wider exhaust tee. I guess the slightly less bulky ATX200 second stage makes a nice bungied backup.

 

[Lil' Irish Temper]

Hmmm, having recently had my scubapro Mk20 swivel first stage literally blow in half I personally see the swivel as a failure point.
If it can fail, then it is a failure point. The fact that you have not heard of it happening often means that it is an unlikely failure point, but a failure point none the less.

I actually prefer the TX100 second stage to the ATX200. I like the wider exhaust tee. I guess the slightly less bulky ATX200 second stage makes a nice bungied backup

Wow, that's scary. Please tell me you were not under when that happened, if so how deep?

 

[DS tank wipe]

The 2nd stages are the exact same despite cosmetic diffreneces 1 st stages are as well except for house routings but couldn't that be said for every over balanced sealed reg out there??? The best set up is ATX 50 with DS4's for dbl's just point the seals inwards and towards each other on the tanks and the hoses route beautifully

 

[Xman]

Wow, I can't belive that. What happened?
Did you contact SP for the warranty service?

Thanks for sharing your experiences. Now, I can see the point.

In between my first and second dive of the day. I had just changed tanks, and turned the air on. I heard the "whoosh" as the hoses filled and then a VERY loud bang and air escaping at an alarming rate. I am very glad this did not happen underwater. It could easily have.

As far as contacting Scubapro, it was shown to the agents for scubapro in this country, and they decided that it was not a warranty case. The claim, and the consensus of opinion seems to be that at some point, someone who serviced the reg has overtorqued the bolt that holds the LP swivel onto the HP side of the 1st stage. Personally, I think it is a design weakness. Scubapro has since started making this bolt out of stainless, but the original that was in my reg was brass. This is not a part that is replaced during standard servicing, although other manufacturers with similar swivel designs do include the bolt in their service kits for their regs.
My personal opinion is that Scubapro saw that there was a weakness there, but rather than admit the problem and recall the regs (or even have the bolt changed at the next service), they just changed to the stainless bolt and hoped noone would complain. I must ad that this is just my opinion, and is not based on any firsthand knowledge of Scubapro's decision making process.

The fact that this caused an immediate total OOA situation that would have been decidedly unpleasant underwater. I originally posted a thread about it under Accidents and Incidents titled something like "unavoidable OOAs" http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=88158&highlight=unavoidable+OOA, but have since been reminded by UP that this was not the case. It was avoidable. Don't use swivel 1st stages. Thats how to avoid it. I see a DS4 1st stage in my near future.

 

[Albion]

There is no difference when it comes to the internal workings of the first stage. The parts kit is the same for the ATX 50 as it would be for the 200. The only real difference I see is hose routing for doubles. The ATX 200 definately routes hoses better than the ATX 50.

The 200 has a replaceable seat so in the long term its a better investment YMMV

 

[Hoosier]

I see what happened. But, I don't accept SP's response at all. They are always mentioning, it it the life support device so that you have to buy it from the authorized dealer and should have it serviced by the authorized technicians, too. And then, they are arguing it isn't covered by the manufacture's warranty. LOL~~~. Like I said so many times, SP international lifetime warranty is just tactic for the sales. Do you know this fact that each LDS can refuse the warranty service if the equipment was not sold at their shop even though the equipment came from the authrized dealer?

So what, SP international lifetime warranty? Are they kidding?

In between my first and second dive of the day. I had just changed tanks, and turned the air on. I heard the "whoosh" as the hoses filled and then a VERY loud bang and air escaping at an alarming rate. I am very glad this did not happen underwater. It could easily have.

As far as contacting Scubapro, it was shown to the agents for scubapro in this country, and they decided that it was not a warranty case. The claim, and the consensus of opinion seems to be that at some point, someone who serviced the reg has overtorqued the bolt that holds the LP swivel onto the HP side of the 1st stage. Personally, I think it is a design weakness. Scubapro has since started making this bolt out of stainless, but the original that was in my reg was brass. This is not a part that is replaced during standard servicing, although other manufacturers with similar swivel designs do include the bolt in their service kits for their regs.
My personal opinion is that Scubapro saw that there was a weakness there, but rather than admit the problem and recall the regs (or even have the bolt changed at the next service), they just changed to the stainless bolt and hoped noone would complain. I must ad that this is just my opinion, and is not based on any firsthand knowledge of Scubapro's decision making process.

The fact that this caused an immediate total OOA situation that would have been decidedly unpleasant underwater. I originally posted a thread about it under Accidents and Incidents titled something like "unavoidable OOAs" http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=88158&highlight=unavoidable+OOA, but have since been reminded by UP that this was not the case. It was avoidable. Don't use swivel 1st stages. Thats how to avoid it. I see a DS4 1st stage in my near future.