Apeks' free flow control device

[fan(t)a(s)tic]

I've recently had a case of a free flowing octo on my buddy's single valve bottle. This happend in a typical rec dive scenario.
We had to close her valve and air-share back to the surface.

Never having had something similar to this happen to me under water, I found myself producing quite a bit of adrenaline. I freely admit to not having had any training in those kinds of 'incidents' (i.e. rescue or similar programm). Although I hope to be able to handle a similar case with mire 'cool' the next time 'round. (And get the proper training, as well, which I will)

All this reminded my of one item my LDS sells, which is the FFCD (free flow control device). I brought up the idea during the discussion of this dive with our DM. He was kinda sceptical because, in his oppinion, this would introduce another possible point of failure into the system.
I could easily imagine someone (heck, even me!) trying to use a regulator that has somehow been shut off and not getting any air.

What's your take on this device? Is the potential for further complication outweighing its benefits?

Steve

 

[scubasean]

I've recently had a case of a free flowing octo on my buddie's single valve bottle. This happend in a typical rec dive scenario.
We had to close her valve and air-share back to the surface.

Never having had something similar to this happen to me under water, I found myself producing quite a bit of adrenaline. I freely admit to not having had any training in those kinds of 'incidents' (i.e. rescue or similar programm). Although I hope to be able to handle a similar case with mire 'cool' the next time 'round. (And get the proper training, as well, which I will)

All this reminded my of one item my LDS sells, which is the FFCD (free flow control device). I brought up the idea during the discussion of this dive with our DM. He was kinda sceptical because, in his oppinion, this would introduce another possible point of failure into the system.
I could easily imagine someone (heck, even me!) trying to use a regulator that has somehow been shut off and not getting any air.

What's your take on this device? Is the potential for further complication outweighing its benefits?

Steve

Just curious why you elected to close the valve due to the FF rather than use the bottle until it went dead? Perhaps the FF was too annoying...

Seems to me that you might have been able to watch the pressure in the bottle while making a controlled ascent...

All of this of course depends on depth, how much pressure was left in the first bottle, how annoying the FF was, etc.

As for comments on the device, I'd rather properly maintain my equipment, which hopefully would significantly limit the number of FF's ever suffered.

 

[fan(t)a(s)tic]

Hi Sean

Well, the DM handled the case and he shut the valve after trying to fix the problem. I'm not quite sure as to what I would have come up with if left on my own and my buddy was in a state of very big eyes as well. As far as I remember, I was thinking of shutting the valve myself, but wanted to see if the DM had an alternative.

So I can't really say what prompted him to do it. The parameters were simple enough, about 12m depth and thirty minutes into the dive, with plenty of air left on all sides. So I guess a swimming ascent with the octo free flowing, would have done it as well.

I am using this my real life example in trying to establish the use for such an item in a more restricting environment (i.e. deep water, overhead etc.), as this would allow a diver to keep the side with the problem open and simply shut off the flowing reg.

 

[Paul Evans]

12m for 30mins, I can't understand why your DM closed the valve!, Can't even see a reason for the wide eyes.

How much air was there at this point?

It should have been easy to ascend on her own in a controlled and safe manner, turning sombodys gas of is a bit harsh in these circumstances

The problem is none of us was there, and without all the facts it is hard to make a fair and just view.

Also even PADI OW covers this situation .whish i'd never typed that

As for Apek free flow device, Just another faliure point, somes it up.

 

[fan(t)a(s)tic]

We had been down to 22m and neither me nor my buddy had ever experienced a free flowing reg before. I wouldn't have thought that it would impress me as much as it actually did.

Yes of course, a swimming ascent was covered in my OWD (SSI), and the air remaining in her bottle would certainly have been sufficient. But the way this went, we were able to make a safety stop (I know we could have done without) and to do so in a relative calm fashion, without the hassle of that erupting air.

In all fairness to the DM, he even asked her, why she didn't simply surface and be done with it. I guess it all comes down to being confronted with a situation that was ouside of our experience.

But let me get this thread back on course: what are your thoughts on the device?

(Please feel free to comment on the scenario as well, I never really thought about doing it any differently.)

 

[MikeFerrara]

The problem with those shut-off valves is that if it's the first stage that's free flowing the hose is just going to blow.

Free flows are pretty common in cold water and it's something you need to be able to handle.

If you can switch to another reg and shut down the free flowing one it will often thaw pretty quick because the water is warmer than the ice in the reg.

 

[roakey]

The problem with those shut-off valves is that if it's the first stage that's free flowing the hose is just going to blow.

If it's the first stgage, assuming we're talking a recreatioanl setup, no hoses will blow but the freeflow will move from one reg to the other, not solving anything.

I still agree with Mike's conclusions.

Roak

 

[fan(t)a(s)tic]

thanks for your input.

Steve

 

[BubbaFetta]

Hi,

I own two of the Apeks FFM devices.

Mike is right: one of the caveats listed for the FFM device is that it MUST have another downstream 2nd stage that is attached to the 1st stage, which will act as an OVER PRESSURE RELIEF VALVE in event of a 1st stage free-flow.

The FFM is a simple device which sits between the IP hose and the 2nd stage regulator. It functions by means of a sliding mechanism. Slide it towards you and it opens up. Slide it away from you and it shuts off.

It does add another failure point (actually 4 more), I agree.
Only you can decide if they are worth it.
It's only function is to stop a 2nd stage free-flow.

A caveat that the supplied instructions do not mention:
The sleeve of the FFM looks almost the same both-ways externally.
But they are different internally.
Hence, if you removed the sleeve to muck with it before installation, and then unknowingly put it on backwards, the FFM may not deliver gas in either position.

For the reason Mike stated above, I do not use the FFM on my deco rig as there is no secondary 2nd stage to act as an overpressure relief valve.

-BubbaFetta

 

[DementialFaith]

The thing creates a simple turbulence before the second stage, so if somehow the second stage fails(like freezes), it can seal off the air to prevent airloss.
The device has 2 O-rings inside the plastic insert which provide a very good seal when the air is turned on