Apeks bp/w + Reg set package enough lift? (30lbs)

[John C. Ratliff]

Okay, let me comment, but this is concerning sport diving only--not technical diving. If you are a qualified diver, and cannot swim about twenty pounds up thirty feet, you should not be diving. Hint: if you try using a frog kick, you won't make it! If at 60 feet, ascending 30 feet will increase your buoyancy enough to allow an easy ascent, without the BCD. But if the diver starts way over-weighted (which is the case sometimes in today's diving), then look below for how to cope.

Now, there is a reason weight belts, and weight pouches, are "quick release"! That is in case there is an emergency, and a burst BCD is that kind of emergency, you dump weights. GET RID OF THE WEIGHT, and swimming to the surface will be easy. But stopping for a safety stop may be trying if you don't have a line to hang onto.

So there are two ways to cope with this emergency--simply swim up, or dump weights. I am skeptical of the use of a lift bag, due to the potential for a run-away ascent. I don't think people in basic or even advanced courses train for this, and it could be problematical.

SeaRat

 

[NorCalDM]

Couple more pics for you.

 

[Berry Ke]

Yeah those paddings and the weight pockets on earlier pics are included in the picture but since this topic I've been doing some research into the 'balanced rig' thing and tbh that will be the first thing I'm going to do once I get this rig. Because from what I've read I like the idea of not having ditchable weights since I know I'm fit enough to swim up to the surface.

 

[decompression]

It seems like the air in the part that was between his legs and sticking up behind would be really hard to vent. And I noticed there was a camera cut between showing that and showing him venting some gas. If you were really low on gas and thus close to neutral it seems like gas back there, hard to vent, could make it really difficult to control your ascent as you get shallow.

Good observation........during the ascent, pull the smb closer to your chest in a slight incline.....this will release some air. The amount of air is really only a few lbs of lift so your lungs are doing most of the work and when you are close to the surface, you can fully inflate it and place under your arms.

 

[Colliam7]

Really interesting discussing, keep it going. I've read it before but this sounds like the Self Reliant/Solo diver course is really a great course, even if you don't plan on diving solo.

In fact, you have really hit on a significant part of the value of such a course - the training makes you a better buddy. You are a diver that your buddy doesn't have to 'worry' about, because you are functionally self-reliant.

I talked to the instructor I ended up taking the course from. He told me, "I don't teach you anything in Solo. I am just there to make sure you already have the skills and the knowledge. If you don't, then you are not ready to dive solo."

An interesting, and accurate, way to put it. In teaching Self-Reliant Diver, I encounter divers who have 1) never used a pony bottle (or back-mounted doubles, or dove sidemount), 2) never used a lift bag, 3) never computed their SAC/RMV. So, what they 'learn' is how to sling (and use) a pony, how to deploy a bag, and how to do a SAC swim and calculate their gas consumption. Of these, they usually have the biggest challenge with deploying a bag or sausage - without silting out the area around them. Most of the dive planning skillss they have done at some point, although they have never done a dive plan in the detail required in the course. Beyond that, they have used a compass for navigation. They have done a no mask swim. But, from my perspective the biggest 'lesson' for them involves developing self-confidence to do a 35-40' solo dive, at times in green water. They already have the basic skills - buoyancy control, compass navigation, etc.

 

[stuartv]

In teaching Self-Reliant Diver, I encounter divers who have 1) never used a pony bottle (or back-mounted doubles, or dove sidemount), 2) never used a lift bag

So, do you end up certifying these people? How long does it take? I mean, are they learning how to dive with a pony and deploy a lift bag and then 2 or 3 or 4 dives later, they are certified Self-Reliant? Or do you teach them the stuff then send them away to practice on their own for a while and come back later to do their checkout dives and get their certification?

And, what does the PADI Self-Reliant certification actually mean? Does it mean you are certified to dive completely by yourself? Or is it just training you and certifying you to be a really good buddy?

SDI Solo certifies you to dive completely by yourself. Maybe that's a difference between SDI and PADI and also why my local quarry allows solo diving with an SDI cert but not with a PADI Self-Reliant cert? I need to ask them about that some time to see that their reasoning is. They teach PADI and SDI, so I don't think it's simple agency favoritism.

 

[Colliam7]

So, do you end up certifying these people? How long does it take? I mean, are they learning how to dive with a pony and deploy a lift bag and then 2 or 3 or 4 dives later, they are certified Self-Reliant? Or do you teach them the stuff then send them away to practice on their own for a while and come back later to do their checkout dives and get their certification?

In cases where I determine - during the initial academic session - that they have not performed these skills before, we have a Confined Water (pool) session before pursuing OW dives. During that session they learn deployment techniques, and practice them. Diving with a pony is easy (and my SRD students only use a slung bottle). We have a separate (from academics) gear rigging session as well, before a pool session or OW session.

And, what does the PADI Self-Reliant certification actually mean? Does it mean you are certified to dive completely by yourself? Or is it just training you and certifying you to be a really good buddy?

Actually, it is both. As a SRD, you are trained / certified to dive without a buddy / partner. When PADI first came out with the course, I frankly thought the name was simply a reflection of PADI's unwillingness to ever use the term 'solo'. But, after I looked at the course content, and philosophy, I came to the conclusion that 'self-reliant' is actually a better, and more broadly meaningful, term than simply 'solo'. (That is not a criticism of the SDI course at all, just a personal observation on semantics.) In any event, a SRD certification indicates that you have the training to dive by yourself, i.e. 'without a partner', to use PADI's terminology. To quote from the PADI Instructor Manual for SRD:

A. Self-reliant diving — planning dives to respond to emergencies independently, whether diving with or without a partner.
1. A self-reliant diver has the skills and knowledge to respond to diving emergencies without assistance.
2. A self-reliant diver also identifies others who may be diving nearby and may be able to help in an emergency (source of gas, navigation assistance, etc).

my local quarry allows solo diving with an SDI cert but not with a PADI Self-Reliant cert? I need to ask them about that some time to see that their reasoning is. They teach PADI and SDI, so I don't think it's simple agency favoritism.

I would encourage you to ask. My experience with several quarries / boat operators is that the 'excuse' occasionally used is that the dive site / operation's insurance carrier requires that divers hold a certification that says 'solo'. I have not been able to verify that such a requirement actually exists, or if it does, with what insurance carriers it is applicable. In some cases, it is simple ignorance - frankly, the term 'self-reliant' may create a misunderstanding among those who do not bother to read the course materials (I would seriously doubt that is the case with your local operation, which teaches both PADI and SDI.)

The content of the two courses is remarkably similar, and the respective requirements have been '
discussed' in a number of previous SB threads over the years, with the general conclusion being that the one / primary difference is in the name of the course (and the fact that SDI produces a very good Solo Diver student manual, which PADI does not).