Apeks bp/w + Reg set package enough lift? (30lbs)

[BrianF]

I dive an almost identical rig (dive right back plate and wing), same size tanks, exposure protection, and weights. I have a 45# rec wing I got because it was a good deal. It is much larger and than needed and is never even close to being full. In fact I would love to get rid of it and get a smaller wing.

 

[luscioman]

I dive with the WTX-D30 in warm water with a Faber 117 and 6# SS plate. I also sometimes have to dive with a 20# chain as well and have not had any issues with not having enough lift.

 

[John C. Ratliff]

... and the weight of the gas in your tank(s).

If your suit loses 20# of buoyancy at depth, a 20# wing is not enough. Even if you are only carrying a single AL80, it holds 6# of gas, so, at the start of you dive, after your suit loses 20#, you will be 26# negative on the bottom.

That's why you do the pool buoyancy test with a full tank of air. And, a 30# lift wing will still be enough.

SeaRat

 

[Berry Ke]

The wing will be fine.

However are you sure you could swim up from depth in the event of a wing failure? It doesn't matter if it's 30/40lb if it fails.

If you arn't your options are: drysuit or a lift bag.Both will work fine in the event of a problem.

Yeah, I think so at least. Never tried, is there any particular reason why someone wouldn't be able to swim this rig up? Actually never even though about this possibility but I'm a pretty fit guy and to be honest most divers I see aren't even near my level of physical fitness.

 

[HantsDiver]

Yeah, I think so at least. Never tried, is there any particular reason why someone wouldn't be able to swim this rig up? Actually never even though about this possibility but I'm a pretty fit guy and to be honest most divers I see aren't even near my level of physical fitness.

Because the suit compresses hugely. And you use up gas. It's like trying to swim up with a heavy weight belt on.

At your best you might be able to do it. What about if you are tired and feeling lightheaded? To fix this problem all you have to do is carry a lift bag and a spool. It's unlikely to cause you a problem but for the price of a few beers it could save your life.

Btw this is the reason why technical divers use drysuits even in warm water. Some use dual bladder wings - but they have there own problems which I don't want to encourage at the moment. A wing popping on a dive is pretty unlikely unless you are doing wreck penetrations. But it's better to be safe than sorry.

 

[Berry Ke]

Because the suit compresses hugely. And you use up gas. It's like trying to swim up with a heavy weight belt on.

At your best you might be able to do it. What about if you are tired and feeling lightheaded? To fix this problem all you have to do is carry a lift bag and a spool. It's unlikely to cause you a problem but for the price of a few beers it could save your life.

Btw this is the reason why technical divers use drysuits even in warm water. Some use dual bladder wings - but they have there own problems which I don't want to encourage at the moment. A wing popping on a dive is pretty unlikely unless you are doing wreck penetrations. But it's better to be safe than sorry.

Yeah thanks, it's definitely something to look into, didn't know it was that hard, maybe I'll try it one day for fun.
Is an smb sufficient to help you get up or do you really need a lift bag for it?
Also is this something divers usually are prepared for? Because no one ever told me this before. But maybe this is something that's being covered in the deep specialty? (which I'll do in 2,3 weeks)

 

[HantsDiver]

Yeah thanks, it's definitely something to look into, didn't know it was that hard, maybe I'll try it one day for fun.
Is an smb sufficient to help you get up or do you really need a lift bag for it?
Also is this something divers usually are prepared for? Because no one ever told me this before. But maybe this is something that's being covered in the deep specialty? (which I'll do in 2,3 weeks)

It really depends on the size of the SMB. I have some big ones I use for diving in the sea when the conditions are sub optimal and they are fine. Small 1m ones are not as ideal. You don't want to drag it down, rather than you up.

This is quite specific. It only applies to cold water diving (because of the thickness of the wetsuit), it only applies to deeper diving, and it only applies to those who do not have a drysuit. It's not that common to do deeper dives in cold water without a drysuit. I'm sure they will go over it in your deep course if you are using a semidry suit. However if you can rent a drysuit for the course do so as it's much nicer to dive.

 

[stuartv]

Yeah thanks, it's definitely something to look into, didn't know it was that hard, maybe I'll try it one day for fun.
Is an smb sufficient to help you get up or do you really need a lift bag for it?
Also is this something divers usually are prepared for? Because no one ever told me this before. But maybe this is something that's being covered in the deep specialty? (which I'll do in 2,3 weeks)

Good SMBs will tell you how much lift they offer. I think good SMBs are generally somewhere in the 25 - 30 pound range. If an SMB doesn't say how much lift it has, then it would be safest to assume it's too small. If the SMB has 25 or 30 pounds of lift and your wing is rated for 25 or 30 pounds, then that SMB is probably sufficient to use as redundant buoyancy...

A lift bag is, potentially, easier to use as redundant buoyancy. It will probably have more lift than an SMB. But, more importantly, it's easier to control your buoyancy, using an SMB or lift bag, if the dump valve is near the top of the bag/SMB. Many SMBs have the dump valve closer to the bottom. If there is a bunch of air in it and you can't vent it as you ascend because the dump valve is too low, that could be anything from a minor pain in the butt to a catastrophic runaway ascent, depending on how well you are able to handle it.

 

[HantsDiver]

A lift bag is, potentially, easier to use as redundant buoyancy. It will probably have more lift than an SMB. But, more importantly, it's easier to control your buoyancy, using an SMB or lift bag, if the dump valve is near the top of the bag/SMB. Many SMBs have the dump valve closer to the bottom. If there is a bunch of air in it and you can't vent it as you ascend because the dump valve is too low, that could be anything from a minor pain in the butt to a catastrophic runaway ascent, depending on how well you are able to handle it.

I've not heard of holding onto the lift bag/smb before. Usually, you shoot it up and then pull yourself up the line. Maybe Americans do stuff differently.

 

[stuartv]

I've not heard of holding onto the lift bag/smb before. Usually, you shoot it up and then pull yourself up the line. Maybe Americans do stuff differently.

What would you do if you happened to be under some kind of overhead restriction? E.g. in a simple swimthrough? In a shipping channel where you have been told not to shoot an SMB? I dived with that restriction in the Saint Lawrence River. Getting dragged by a 400' cargo ship doesn't sound fun (but, being on the bottom and listening to one go by overhead was really cool!). Nor does plunging to the bottom because you were using your redundant buoyancy and a ship ran over it and trashed it. And what do you do if you shoot your redundant buoyancy to the surface and there is surface or midwater current that is trying to drag it away from the anchor line you need to get to?

When I took Solo Diver, my instructor showed me how to use a lift bag for redundant buoyancy and had me practice it. The method was to clip a lift bag directly to my scooter ring and sort of lay on top of it. It really wasn't that difficult. Another instructor I've trained with teaches to clip the bag to a D-ring on the shoulder strap. Similar idea but I like the scooter ring deal better. No contortions required to reach the bag's dump valve when needed, and the lift is not pulling you out of trim to one side.