Gator Diver
Contributor
pretty deep dive!!!!!!!...........
Apeks ATX100..comments?
- Thread starter jplacson
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RonR
Contributor
I can respond to a few of the questions raised in this thread about Zeagle, Apeks, and Poseidon, since I have worked for the distributors and/ or the companies themselves and at one time or another taught the factory sponsored repair classes for all of them. They are all great regulators, just a little different from one another.
Poseidon and Free-flow:
Poseidon, with the Cyklon in the 50's and the Odin/ Jeststream in the 80's was responsible for real breakthroughs in regulator design. In the early to mid 80's there were almost no other regulators in the same performance class as the Odin. Today there are a lot of very good performing regulators, and the cost of parts, difficult maintenance (hard to find qualified service people who have the special tools needed), and the fact that (in the US) they have not had stable distribution has caused them to lose favor. The Odin 2nd stage is a servo actuated valve which is very sensitive, and in shallow water it can tend to "throw" air at you. Some people like this, others feel like it's trying to blow their tonsils through the back of their throat. It comes down to personal preference. If the desensitizing switch is used I don't think the Odin has any great tendency to free-flow on the surface, but if it does free-flow it can look like an underwater volcano is erupting. It can move a lot of air.
Apeks and Zeagle- are they the same?
Zeagle was, for many years, the US distributor of Apeks regulators. Apeks also sold some Zeagle manufactured BC's (as did Poseidon), though Zeagle did not make all the Apeks BC's. When Air Liquide, (the parent of Aqua Lung) purchased the Apeks factory it was announced that SeaQuest would begin distributing the Apeks regulators. It seemed unlikely that the distribution agreement with Zeagle would be renewed, so some improvements to the Apeks line that Zeagle had been working on became instead a development project for a new set of regulators. Since 2000, the Zeagle regulators have been made by Zeagle, not Apeks.
These are completely new designs and they DO NOT have interchangeable parts. Zeagle closed out the remaining Apeks manufactured regulators, so there was some overlap when both were being sold, but the Zeagle manufactured 2nd stages were smaller and had a flexible purge cover, the Apeks 2nd stages were larger with a hard purge cover and a spring loaded button. The other obvious difference is that most of the environmentally sealed Zeagle regulators use a plastic cap to retain the sealing diaphragm, while on the Apeks it is metal. This was done as a thermal break, since under some extreme environments ice could actually form completely around the diaphragm end of the regulator, eliminating it's ability to sense pressure changes, with obvious dire consequences! Ice won't form on the plastic.
There are a lot of external similarities between the Zeagle regs and the Apeks, but internally the Zeagle first stage is a lot closer to the Poseidon. Apeks (as do most regulators) uses a flat HP seat with a sharp orifice to form the HP valve. Zeagle and Poseidon both use a donut shaped HP seat with a hole for the gas to flow through, which is sealed by a cone. It's like the difference between a faucet washer and a needle valve. The latter has advantages in that there is no sharp edge biting into the seating surface (so seats last longer with less wear), and it does a smoother job of "regulating" airflow. It is, however, more difficult to manufacture and requires tighter tolerances for the seating surface. The reasons for choosing this design are 1) reliability and longer seat life 2) greater smoothness over a wide range of breathing rates.
As far as the pros and cons go, Pimbura above said " Many fine points of argument may be made from many perspectives and all will have validity. However, these are (for the most part) an intellectual exercise, as any of these regulators when operating properly and in good condition is more than adequate to depths far beyond reason." Well said.
RonR
Poseidon and Free-flow:
Poseidon, with the Cyklon in the 50's and the Odin/ Jeststream in the 80's was responsible for real breakthroughs in regulator design. In the early to mid 80's there were almost no other regulators in the same performance class as the Odin. Today there are a lot of very good performing regulators, and the cost of parts, difficult maintenance (hard to find qualified service people who have the special tools needed), and the fact that (in the US) they have not had stable distribution has caused them to lose favor. The Odin 2nd stage is a servo actuated valve which is very sensitive, and in shallow water it can tend to "throw" air at you. Some people like this, others feel like it's trying to blow their tonsils through the back of their throat. It comes down to personal preference. If the desensitizing switch is used I don't think the Odin has any great tendency to free-flow on the surface, but if it does free-flow it can look like an underwater volcano is erupting. It can move a lot of air.
Apeks and Zeagle- are they the same?
Zeagle was, for many years, the US distributor of Apeks regulators. Apeks also sold some Zeagle manufactured BC's (as did Poseidon), though Zeagle did not make all the Apeks BC's. When Air Liquide, (the parent of Aqua Lung) purchased the Apeks factory it was announced that SeaQuest would begin distributing the Apeks regulators. It seemed unlikely that the distribution agreement with Zeagle would be renewed, so some improvements to the Apeks line that Zeagle had been working on became instead a development project for a new set of regulators. Since 2000, the Zeagle regulators have been made by Zeagle, not Apeks.
These are completely new designs and they DO NOT have interchangeable parts. Zeagle closed out the remaining Apeks manufactured regulators, so there was some overlap when both were being sold, but the Zeagle manufactured 2nd stages were smaller and had a flexible purge cover, the Apeks 2nd stages were larger with a hard purge cover and a spring loaded button. The other obvious difference is that most of the environmentally sealed Zeagle regulators use a plastic cap to retain the sealing diaphragm, while on the Apeks it is metal. This was done as a thermal break, since under some extreme environments ice could actually form completely around the diaphragm end of the regulator, eliminating it's ability to sense pressure changes, with obvious dire consequences! Ice won't form on the plastic.
There are a lot of external similarities between the Zeagle regs and the Apeks, but internally the Zeagle first stage is a lot closer to the Poseidon. Apeks (as do most regulators) uses a flat HP seat with a sharp orifice to form the HP valve. Zeagle and Poseidon both use a donut shaped HP seat with a hole for the gas to flow through, which is sealed by a cone. It's like the difference between a faucet washer and a needle valve. The latter has advantages in that there is no sharp edge biting into the seating surface (so seats last longer with less wear), and it does a smoother job of "regulating" airflow. It is, however, more difficult to manufacture and requires tighter tolerances for the seating surface. The reasons for choosing this design are 1) reliability and longer seat life 2) greater smoothness over a wide range of breathing rates.
As far as the pros and cons go, Pimbura above said " Many fine points of argument may be made from many perspectives and all will have validity. However, these are (for the most part) an intellectual exercise, as any of these regulators when operating properly and in good condition is more than adequate to depths far beyond reason." Well said.
RonR
VTernovski
Contributor
John Bennett used TX100 and TX50 for that dive, he did not use ATX100 or ATX200.
OP
jplacson
Guest
Ah ok! Thanks... I also heard it freeflowed during the dive... is this true?
Aquanaught
Guest
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Jplackson...
I don't know how much money you are willing to spent on a regulator but how about the Aqualung Legend LX (Supreme).
It seems that it's a very good regulator. Ask your LDS.
I don't know how much money you are willing to spent on a regulator but how about the Aqualung Legend LX (Supreme).
It seems that it's a very good regulator. Ask your LDS.
OP
jplacson
Guest
Nah, I've heard too many bad things about Aqua Lung (even from the LDS who sells them-High maintenance, HP seat gives too often, and annual servicing is more expensive than Apeks) so I've decided to stay away from them... too bad, I was actually drawn to their Micra ADJ once.
I can get a full ATX50 Stage 3 with Apeks brass SPG for US$350. I think that's a pretty decent deal.
I can get a full ATX50 Stage 3 with Apeks brass SPG for US$350. I think that's a pretty decent deal.
Aquanaught
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Are there more people who heard bad things about the Aqualung Legend LX?
I was thinking about considering the legend maybe as the right regulator for me but I still want to test it offcourse...
Untill that can anyone give some feedback about the cons and pros from the Aqualung Legend LX ?
Thanks in advance
Roy
I was thinking about considering the legend maybe as the right regulator for me but I still want to test it offcourse...
Untill that can anyone give some feedback about the cons and pros from the Aqualung Legend LX ?
Thanks in advance
Roy
midwestdvr
Contributor
jplacson....how are the prices on scuba gear in the phil? Will be going there this Dec-Jan? Are they fairly decent when converted to dollars from pesos? Also, what brand is typically available in the the shops. TIA.
OP
jplacson
Guest
midwest... I'm not really sure how our prices here compare to the ones in the US... specially after discounts.
But I think we're pretty competetive here. As long as you go to the shop that is the authorized dealer of a particular brand.
The popular brands here are: (all have authorized dealers)
-Scubapro (Scuba World)
-Mares (Scuba World)
-Aqualung (Aquaventure aka. Aqua One)
-Poseidon (Phil Tech Divers)
-Apeks (Adventure Bound, and Capt. Greggs I think)
-Halcyon (Adventure Bound)
-Tusa (Scuba World)
-Seaquest (Aquaventure aka. Aqua One)
-Suunto (Aquaventure aka. Aqua One)
-Uwatec (Scuba World)
-Oceanic (Scuba World)
So far, I haven't seen any major dominance of one brand over another... although Scubapro regs seem to be used by more divers.
The shops I mentioned are just a few... the ones I've been to anyway... they are all within a 40 min drive from each other here in Metro Manila so you can canvas around.
But I think we're pretty competetive here. As long as you go to the shop that is the authorized dealer of a particular brand.
The popular brands here are: (all have authorized dealers)
-Scubapro (Scuba World)
-Mares (Scuba World)
-Aqualung (Aquaventure aka. Aqua One)
-Poseidon (Phil Tech Divers)
-Apeks (Adventure Bound, and Capt. Greggs I think)
-Halcyon (Adventure Bound)
-Tusa (Scuba World)
-Seaquest (Aquaventure aka. Aqua One)
-Suunto (Aquaventure aka. Aqua One)
-Uwatec (Scuba World)
-Oceanic (Scuba World)
So far, I haven't seen any major dominance of one brand over another... although Scubapro regs seem to be used by more divers.
The shops I mentioned are just a few... the ones I've been to anyway... they are all within a 40 min drive from each other here in Metro Manila so you can canvas around.
Well I've got one of each, so how's that for a qualified opinion? (Actually, I've got a Zeagle Flathead VI and a Poseidon Cyklon 5000 - probably close enough.)
The Poseidon was my first 'serious' regulator and I loved it immediately. I began to dislike it somewhat when I got into instruction; that particular 2nd breathes very wet and doesn't clear well at all unless you know to lean your head toward the diaphragm. I grew VERY weary of explaining all that to every last student. However, it's got one hell of a lot of horsepower. Kind of like having a high-powered classic car in the garage; great, but would you drive it into the mountains? I tire greatly of the parts availability issues that crop up from time to time, too.
The Zeagle is extremely solid and a very well-adjusted reg. (I'm not talking about the adjustments, I'm talking about it's state of mind.) Delivers as much air as you'll ever need, is adjustable and you can take the 2nd apart without tools. (Kind of important when you dive in some of what I dive in.) No nonsense and very mature. I'd recommend it for just about anything. Can't say that about the Poseidon, although you'll notice I haven't sold the Poseidon. HIH doole
The Poseidon was my first 'serious' regulator and I loved it immediately. I began to dislike it somewhat when I got into instruction; that particular 2nd breathes very wet and doesn't clear well at all unless you know to lean your head toward the diaphragm. I grew VERY weary of explaining all that to every last student. However, it's got one hell of a lot of horsepower. Kind of like having a high-powered classic car in the garage; great, but would you drive it into the mountains? I tire greatly of the parts availability issues that crop up from time to time, too.
The Zeagle is extremely solid and a very well-adjusted reg. (I'm not talking about the adjustments, I'm talking about it's state of mind.) Delivers as much air as you'll ever need, is adjustable and you can take the 2nd apart without tools. (Kind of important when you dive in some of what I dive in.) No nonsense and very mature. I'd recommend it for just about anything. Can't say that about the Poseidon, although you'll notice I haven't sold the Poseidon. HIH doole
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