blacknet
Contributor
Hello,
Yes it's refering to the adjustment knob.
Ed
Yes it's refering to the adjustment knob.
Ed
APEKS AT20/ATX40/ATX50 alternate??
- Thread starter jbm
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Hi JBM;
I assume you are primarily a cold water diver/dry suit diver. Selection of the HP120 would tend to indicate as much. These tanks are heavy as lead and rather long but represent a good selection for a bully, fit chap who is diving in rugged northern conditions. They are not suitable for tropical diving. Besides dry suits, the 120 tank can be used with thick wet suits but in either case be sure your BC is reliable with a rugged fabric. Swimming up from one or two hundred feet with a deflated BC can be iffy. The suit selection may impact your BC choice as to back inflated or vest and for other reasons also. Vests(jackets) are good for wreck divers because of the pockets, room for a doubloon or two. Back inflators require a swarm of hooks and rings or awkward accessory pockets to secure stuff. Also, they may become somewhat irrelevant on a surface swim. If you are doing something that requires an unobstructed chest area, like cocking a big speargun or operating controls on a drysuit, the back wing might be for you.
I doubt you need to spend the money on an ATX200 but you may find you like the adjustable second available on some Apeks or other brands. Having an adjustable first and second stg gives the advanced diver more options. The sealed first stage is the way to go irrespective of brand or model. It should be pointed out that the usually cheaper Aqualung regulators are available in cold water versions. The difference in the brands is more "mental" than anything else. Selection of a specific backup is not crucial; a simple, cheap unit is OK but in making the selection ensure that it is specifically marketed as a backup second with detuned action. These are less likely to freeflow.
The Genesis "react" is a really nice computer, good graphics and user replaceable battery. Suggest you consider it as a console mount.
Consoles feature Rubber boots and these are necessary to protect the delicate action of a bourdon tube pressure gauge(dial gauge) or magnetic compass, if used. My preference is for a wrist mounted compass because this item, when needed, may have to be referred to frequently, in which case no boot is required. Just don't drop it on a hard surface.
Good luck.
I assume you are primarily a cold water diver/dry suit diver. Selection of the HP120 would tend to indicate as much. These tanks are heavy as lead and rather long but represent a good selection for a bully, fit chap who is diving in rugged northern conditions. They are not suitable for tropical diving. Besides dry suits, the 120 tank can be used with thick wet suits but in either case be sure your BC is reliable with a rugged fabric. Swimming up from one or two hundred feet with a deflated BC can be iffy. The suit selection may impact your BC choice as to back inflated or vest and for other reasons also. Vests(jackets) are good for wreck divers because of the pockets, room for a doubloon or two. Back inflators require a swarm of hooks and rings or awkward accessory pockets to secure stuff. Also, they may become somewhat irrelevant on a surface swim. If you are doing something that requires an unobstructed chest area, like cocking a big speargun or operating controls on a drysuit, the back wing might be for you.
I doubt you need to spend the money on an ATX200 but you may find you like the adjustable second available on some Apeks or other brands. Having an adjustable first and second stg gives the advanced diver more options. The sealed first stage is the way to go irrespective of brand or model. It should be pointed out that the usually cheaper Aqualung regulators are available in cold water versions. The difference in the brands is more "mental" than anything else. Selection of a specific backup is not crucial; a simple, cheap unit is OK but in making the selection ensure that it is specifically marketed as a backup second with detuned action. These are less likely to freeflow.
The Genesis "react" is a really nice computer, good graphics and user replaceable battery. Suggest you consider it as a console mount.
Consoles feature Rubber boots and these are necessary to protect the delicate action of a bourdon tube pressure gauge(dial gauge) or magnetic compass, if used. My preference is for a wrist mounted compass because this item, when needed, may have to be referred to frequently, in which case no boot is required. Just don't drop it on a hard surface.
Good luck.
DiverInAk
Contributor
All I can add is I love my TX100, but the TX50 is a fine second stage with no discernable difference between the two. I dive my TX100 primary, own two TX50's and all three setups have TX40's as octo's. Basically I don't have to worry about what setup I take, or for some reason I ever have a malfunction at the dive site I grab one of the TX50 rigs, I really can't tell any difference.
I think the 200 is overkill unless you can clearly define why you would need it over the 50 or 100 rigs.
I bought the TX50/40 setups not just for my backups, but for my kids to use in cold water as well as warm. I trust them with my children in 37 degree water.
I think the 200 is overkill unless you can clearly define why you would need it over the 50 or 100 rigs.
I bought the TX50/40 setups not just for my backups, but for my kids to use in cold water as well as warm. I trust them with my children in 37 degree water.
davidofaustin
Contributor
No better recommendation than that. (Well as long as the kids aren't a pain in the b-ack.)
I believe you should write Apeks and let em know.
future apeks diver
Dave
Lost Yooper
Guest
I was just curious how the name "dial of death" came to be (first I've heard it, I think). I suspect Ed was referring to it being unnecessary for a backup. I don't think I could ever dive a primary without an adjuster knob. The difference is astounding to say the least.
I've yet to hear of an adjustable reg (particulary a quality reg like an Apeks) being a factor in someone's death or injury. I'm sure Ed was speaking facetiously, but wanted to make sure
. The adjustable Apeks TX50 has a track record among extreme divers that is only rivaled by a few other regs on the market (all more expensive, I believe).
Mike
PS. There's a lot of misinformation regarding back inflation BC's out there, so make sure you study up on it thoroughly.
I've yet to hear of an adjustable reg (particulary a quality reg like an Apeks) being a factor in someone's death or injury. I'm sure Ed was speaking facetiously, but wanted to make sure
. The adjustable Apeks TX50 has a track record among extreme divers that is only rivaled by a few other regs on the market (all more expensive, I believe).Mike
PS. There's a lot of misinformation regarding back inflation BC's out there, so make sure you study up on it thoroughly.
DiverInAk
Contributor
I can understand the "dial-of-death" analogy. Last spring I went to Hawaii after not diving for a few months. Did a shore dive with my wife to about 70 first day. No problems, a very relaxing dive.
The next day I went for a long range 3 tank boat dive. First dive was the deepest and as I dropped below 100' I started to feel like I was working too hard. I couldn't understand it but I started down the anxiety road after a while. I kept looking at my guage and notices I was using up air faster than normal, but that it seemed hard to get the air.
It wasn't until AFTER the dive I realized the problem. I FORGOT that I was diving with an adjustible reg and it was cranked down. I was just so excited to be making the first warm water boat dive in a year, I rushed into the water.
From that one experience I've learned several things. One of which is that on my safe second, I don't want to have to think about it.
The next day I went for a long range 3 tank boat dive. First dive was the deepest and as I dropped below 100' I started to feel like I was working too hard. I couldn't understand it but I started down the anxiety road after a while. I kept looking at my guage and notices I was using up air faster than normal, but that it seemed hard to get the air.
It wasn't until AFTER the dive I realized the problem. I FORGOT that I was diving with an adjustible reg and it was cranked down. I was just so excited to be making the first warm water boat dive in a year, I rushed into the water.
From that one experience I've learned several things. One of which is that on my safe second, I don't want to have to think about it.
blacknet
Contributor
Hello,
Perhaps I should clarify some points I made earlier about the 'dial a death' in reference to the adjustment knob on regulators.
Regulators know better than you, the user, how much gas to deliver at any instant. When you start adding extra 'gadgets' 'features' 'options' and other stuff like the adjustment knob then you get into a realm of less than optimal performance.
Like previously mentioned there are many divers who fit into this category by improper adjustments and excessive gas consumption, excessive work load and increased risk of accident/medical problems (like dci and related) it can also increases the stress level.
One leading cause listed on accident reports is 'equipment problems' while this may not literally be equipment malfunctions but rather an appearance to the distressed diver as having equipment malfunctions. This adjustment knob is just another trinket for the diver to deal with and in most cases unnecessary.
If a regulator manufacture makes model A reg with no adjustments this year, next year they make the same regulator with a slight change, they put an adjustment knob on, then they remarket it as 'new and improved' and urge everyone to 'upgrade' to help stimulate market shares and the only difference is minimal then would this new model be truly worth the upgrade?
I should also state that I am yet aware of any actual deaths occurring from an adjustment knob but I do know of a specific case where a regulator was improperly maintained and cared for. This one particular dive all he had to do was turn the knob in the slightest manner and the unit would break. It was literally hanging by a thread. Fortunately for me and the diver the knob was never touched during the dive and afterwards when I found out some issues he was having I demanded the regulator be serviced before we get into the water again. Had this unit not had the adjustment knob then this potentially deadly case would have been possible.
Ed
Perhaps I should clarify some points I made earlier about the 'dial a death' in reference to the adjustment knob on regulators.
Regulators know better than you, the user, how much gas to deliver at any instant. When you start adding extra 'gadgets' 'features' 'options' and other stuff like the adjustment knob then you get into a realm of less than optimal performance.
Like previously mentioned there are many divers who fit into this category by improper adjustments and excessive gas consumption, excessive work load and increased risk of accident/medical problems (like dci and related) it can also increases the stress level.
One leading cause listed on accident reports is 'equipment problems' while this may not literally be equipment malfunctions but rather an appearance to the distressed diver as having equipment malfunctions. This adjustment knob is just another trinket for the diver to deal with and in most cases unnecessary.
If a regulator manufacture makes model A reg with no adjustments this year, next year they make the same regulator with a slight change, they put an adjustment knob on, then they remarket it as 'new and improved' and urge everyone to 'upgrade' to help stimulate market shares and the only difference is minimal then would this new model be truly worth the upgrade?
I should also state that I am yet aware of any actual deaths occurring from an adjustment knob but I do know of a specific case where a regulator was improperly maintained and cared for. This one particular dive all he had to do was turn the knob in the slightest manner and the unit would break. It was literally hanging by a thread. Fortunately for me and the diver the knob was never touched during the dive and afterwards when I found out some issues he was having I demanded the regulator be serviced before we get into the water again. Had this unit not had the adjustment knob then this potentially deadly case would have been possible.
Ed
buff
Contributor
I have the TX50 and the TX40 as an octo. I don't see the need for a dial knob on the primary. The idea appealed to me at time I bought it. I find the dial thingy to be a gimmick. The TX40 breathes very well at 30 feet and at 130 feet and I'm willing to bet 530 feet.
If the regulator works well without a dial then why place one on it?? and I think the TX40 breathes very well. The dial is just one more thing to go wrong and have to spend more to fix. It is what the DIR "boys" call another failure point. The dial will probably never fail but it's just another mechanical part that if it needs servicing it just costs more money. I find the TX40 more than adequate.
If the regulator works well without a dial then why place one on it?? and I think the TX40 breathes very well. The dial is just one more thing to go wrong and have to spend more to fix. It is what the DIR "boys" call another failure point. The dial will probably never fail but it's just another mechanical part that if it needs servicing it just costs more money. I find the TX40 more than adequate.
Lost Yooper
Guest
You can't blame the reg for human error or neglect. If a diver believes it's too much task loading to have the adjuster, then get a reg without an adjuster -- as you have bigger problems to tackle, I guess. Neglect aside, the adjuster doesn't pose a threat of failure of any kind, much less a failure that would endanger a diver. I'm referring to quality regs here, not some cute, low-end, unproven reg design.
If adjustable regs posed a significant threat, then extreme technical divers wouldn't use them as their first choice. Granted, there are great non adjustable regs out there that will serve many divers just fine. I wouldn't base my choice solely on whether a reg has an adjuster or not. A good quality reg with a proven design is far more important -- Apeks, Scuba Pro, and Abyssmal are pretty well proven.
Thanks for the clarification, but I don't buy it.
Take care.
Mike
BTW, I'm not against the use of higher performance, non adjustable regs for recreational divers such as the TX40. For me, having used an adjustable Apeks for so long, I don't think I could go back. Just to be clear.
If adjustable regs posed a significant threat, then extreme technical divers wouldn't use them as their first choice. Granted, there are great non adjustable regs out there that will serve many divers just fine. I wouldn't base my choice solely on whether a reg has an adjuster or not. A good quality reg with a proven design is far more important -- Apeks, Scuba Pro, and Abyssmal are pretty well proven.
Thanks for the clarification, but I don't buy it.
Take care.
Mike
BTW, I'm not against the use of higher performance, non adjustable regs for recreational divers such as the TX40. For me, having used an adjustable Apeks for so long, I don't think I could go back. Just to be clear.
buff
Contributor
But Yooper-
You advocate the use preference of the DS4 1st stage over the DST due to a possible point of failure e.g. the swivel on the DST. But when it comes to the second stage and having a knob that is a point of failure you then say it's the user's fault if anything goes wrong.
What happened on the the way from the 1st stage to the second stage???
Many of those extreme technical divers use what the manufacturer PAYS them to use. Sometimes there is a slip up. On one of the sites about extreme caving inSouth Africa(I think it was South Africa) you can see that the diver is using a Poseidon Cyklon 5000 on one of the deco stops. The record attepts were funded in part by ScubaPro not Poseidon......ooopppsss.
Yooper
You are normally so thoughtful, so clear headed but now I see the error of my ways.......I shall follow ye blindly no more. Ye not beith some sea god but a mere mortal........perhaps a U of Michigan supporter at that!
Mike
You advocate the use preference of the DS4 1st stage over the DST due to a possible point of failure e.g. the swivel on the DST. But when it comes to the second stage and having a knob that is a point of failure you then say it's the user's fault if anything goes wrong.
What happened on the the way from the 1st stage to the second stage???
Many of those extreme technical divers use what the manufacturer PAYS them to use. Sometimes there is a slip up. On one of the sites about extreme caving inSouth Africa(I think it was South Africa) you can see that the diver is using a Poseidon Cyklon 5000 on one of the deco stops. The record attepts were funded in part by ScubaPro not Poseidon......ooopppsss.
Yooper
You are normally so thoughtful, so clear headed but now I see the error of my ways.......I shall follow ye blindly no more. Ye not beith some sea god but a mere mortal........perhaps a U of Michigan supporter at that!
Mike
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