Aow

[Diver Dan 28]

Hey everyone. I was certified in June and have 57 dives. I was on the verge of making a huge mistake by taking the advice of another dive shop in my area. This other dive shop is affiliated with PADI. It unfortunately is the only other dive shop my area (also closer to my house).
My goal is to become an instructor for handicapped individuals later on in my hopefully long dive career. The mistake I almost made was to take the AOW course through him. I was under the impression that I could take the rescue course later next fall. I told the shop owner my goals he of course said he'd be happy to help me reach them.
What he failed to mention is that after I spend X amount on the AOW I would still need to spend X amount on 5 specialties courses. Just to be eligible for the DM Course.
Okay so I start to think and what basically we in SSI call an Advanced Adventurer, PADI is calling AOW. I am loosing money by just getting a sniff of what AOW really is all about. So when I find out that this guy is about to put the screws to me I stop by the shop and ask a few simple guestions and he starts back tracking.
What I have learned about this episode is: 1. A ex Navy Seal can also be a crude business man. 2. Do not be so excited, that I don't research before spending X amount of hard earned, hard to come by extra fun money. 3. And finally don't be influenced buy a shop that carries the gear you like.
I am recovering from an injury at this time so thankfully my plan was derailed. I don't care about the specialty cards themselves however if I'm required to have the speciality I want the education that goes with it. Also if I intend to become an instructor I sort of need to know these things.
I have called the shop I certified with and told them what was about to happen and surprise surprise he is offering a two weekend course with two dives a day that will cover navigation, search and recovery, deep dives, and night dives for roughly $90 more. These include the specialty cards. Where as the other shop was going to do it in one weekend, and there would be no specialties credited towards my goals.
I suppose that the PADI shop here makes alot of money off of people who just want to have a card that basicly means nothing, yet opens the door to an accident waiting to happen. I hope I have posted something that another dive might appreciate if he or she is thinking about advancing in their diving education.

 

[tomfcrist]

A couple things for you...

First off Padi is well known for its buisiness model. Shouldn't have been a surprise there.

Second, about 1% of people who say they are Navy Seals actually are. Send me this guys name and I'll check for you. God help him if he's using that line as a way to attract customers.

Third, your goals are Nobel, and I hope you reach them. Do some research on specific handicapped scuba programs and agencies

 

[rick00001967]

if you ever want to be a padi instr you are required to take the padi aow course as part of the process. it can also help you reach an ssi pro level as well. the padi adv cert is recognized as an acceptable prerequisite to the ssi dive guide program (which is the first ssi pro level) as it is listed as being equivalent to ssi adv adventurer.
ssi standards have changed this year.......you do not have to take any actual specialty courses other than stress and rescue to become an ssi dive guide. you only need to show proof of 5 dives in nav, night/limited viz, deep, and search and recovery (although "most" people would probably not have 5 dives in search and recovery)
your logged dives (you said 57) must also total at least 25hrs under water to start the course

to clarify.....you need 50 dives totaling 32 hrs to finish the dive guide course

 

[RJP]

What he failed to mention is that after I spend X amount on the AOW I would still need to spend X amount on 5 specialties courses. Just to be eligible for the DM Course.

First off Padi is well known for its buisiness model. Shouldn't have been a surprise there.

OK, before employing the kneejerk reaction to blame PADI here, let's move further up the spinal cord and get our brains involved. The fact of the matter is that the "business practices" in question here are those of the shop owner alone. (Though, before we even kick the shop owner, see bottom of this reply for information on the possibility that the OP has misunderstood something he heard or read.)

There is no PADI requirement that a DM have ANY specialty certification. You're local shop owner may want people who DM for him to have five specialties, but as you can see from the prerequisites to enroll in the course and requirements to finish the course - which I've copied directly from my PADI instructor manual - there is no such requirement:

PADI Divemaster Course
Diver Prerequisites

• Certified as a PADI Advanced Open Water Diver and
• PADI Rescue Diver
• 18 years old
• Logged 40 scuba dives
• Completed EFR Primary and Secondary Care training
• within 24 months
• Medically evaluated and cleared for diving by a
• physician within 12 months

Certification Requirements
Divemaster candidates meet course performance requirements and:

• Complete knowledge development segments including Knowledge Reviews in the PADI Divemaster Manual or through Divemaster Online, and pass the Divemaster
• Final Exam.
• Create an Emergency Assistance Plan for a designated dive site.
• Complete waterskills exercises.
• Complete a diver rescue assessment.
• Complete the dive skills workshop and assessment.
• Complete practical application skills.
• Complete divemaster-conducted programs workshops.
• Complete practical assessments.
• Meet the professionalism criteria.
• At time of certification, verify the candidate has:
  • Logged at least 60 scuba dives including experience in night diving, deep diving and underwater navigation.
  • Completed EFR Primary and Secondary Care training within 24 months.
  • Read and agreed to the PADI Membership and License Agreements.

OP - is it possible you were thinking of PADI "Master Diver" Certification? This certification can be earned once a diver has completed OW, AOW, Rescue, and 5 PADI specialty certifications, and logged 50 dives.

You say the owner "failed to mention this" so I'm assuming he never said it to you? If that's the case, is it possible that you went to the web or something and mistakenly looked up the requirements for "Master Diver" instead of "Divemaster?"

 

[ffdiver]

Can we clear the air that every agency is pretty much selling the same courses.

Why is it that PADI gets crap for having a navigation specialty or aow course when every agency has almost the exact same ladder?

I'm so sick of hearing PADI bashing over the aow course or other courses that every other agency offers. Just find an instructor you like and trust and use them.

As far as the hsa cert, Google their requirements and find out what the pre reqs are. Don't come on a public forum bashing a shop owner just because he is selling courses just like an sdi, nase, naui shop owner would.

 

[rick00001967]

i have never done a total cost calculation but it think in the past, the road to instr with padi would have been cheaper than with ssi. now with the new ssi standards i think it may be more or less the same.

 

[tstormdiver]

Can we clear the air that every agency is pretty much selling the same courses.

Not entirely correct. Yes, SSI has its Advanced Adventurer course that is the same as PADI's Advanced Open Water,... SSI's Advanced Open Water is not a "course",... it requires 4 full specialty courses & a minimum of 24 logged dives....So in that case there are some differences.

 

[dytis-sm]

I agree with RJP that there is some confusion. The five specialties requirement is for PADI "Master Scuba" not PADI "DiveMaster". There is some misunderstanding which seems to have turned into a discussion of how much it costs for training. I think that the quality and cost are two unrelated parameters in scuba training. I think you should go with someone you trust and have a good rapport. Also ask around for experiences with a particular shop/instructor and not just YELP if you know what I mean. Diving communities are small and it is not hard to find information on LDSs and their instructors.

 

[BoltSnap]

I don't see what the problem is if the instructor was going to teach you something in these courses and you get your money's worth out of them. If you are complaining that he was going to "sell you the cards" but no knowledge or skill transfer were going to take place, that is a totally different matter.

Most of basic specialties are specialties that any self respecting instructor must and should know them and be close to an expert in these basic specialties. I don't know how else you are going to get knowledge and experience in basic specialties if you don't take these courses yourself from an expert and experienced instructor.

I have no love for PADI but one must be really careful when bashing other agencies while making illogical accusations. You want the knowledge and expertise that come from training, you pay for it!!!

NOTE: All above is contingent on the instructor actually delivering real content in his courses and not simply be selling c-cards for the sake of just collecting c-cards!!

 

[spc751]

At least one SSI shop I know of does SSI AOW in just fives dives to do four specialty courses. And the dives do not hace to be done with an instructor. I fail to see how doing five dives to get an SSI AOW card is better than fives dives with a PADI instructor to get a PADI AOW card.