AOW vs GUE Fundamentals

[AdivingBel]

There is no real difference.

PADI recommends that OW divers stay above 60 feet and requires instructors to keep students at that limit.
PADI recommends that AOW divers stay above 100 feet and requires instructors to keep students at that limit.
PADI recommends that Deep Diver trained divers stay above 130 feet and requires instructors to keep students at that limit.

Neither PADI nor any other agency in the world has the legal power to limit the dives you do on your own.

UTD and PSAI may make the recommendations you describe, but they have no more power than PADI does to stop you from doing whatever you please on your dives. Local authorities have that power. Dive operators have that power over the people who use their services. Dive agencies do not.

It's amazing how many times you have had to post this. You should preface the statements with "this is a recording."

 

[boulderjohn]

It's amazing how many times you have had to post this. You should preface the statements with "this is a recording."

I make a deep sigh and try to remember that most of the readers have not read this or about 5-6 other similar oft-repeated explanations.

When I was an English teacher grading student essays electronically, I had a macro file that enabled me to make a couple of clicks and have long explanations of common key writing concepts appear within the students' essays. Perhaps I should find a way to do the same thing here.

 

[tursiops]

When I was an English teacher grading student essays electronically, I had a macro file that enabled me to make a couple of clicks and have long explanations of common key writing concepts appear within the students' essays. Perhaps I should find a way to do the same thing here.

Good idea. You wouldn't need very many, but you'd need them often...

Even better, make them available like in-line smileys, so anyone could use them!

 

[boulderjohn]

Good idea. You wouldn't need very many, but you'd need them often...

Even better, make them available like in-line smileys, so anyone could use them!

Hmmmmm.

One year when I was teaching a made a large chart on the wall that I titled The Whine List. It was a list of the most popular student whines, each with a number. I told students that when they wanted to whine, they should do it by number to save time. It really worked well. Perhaps that could work here, too.

OK, OK. We are getting off topic. Carry on with the thread.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

Purely for insurance and legal purposes, boat operators who are taking me for a 100 ft dive need to see a plastic card that implies that a certain depth-range has been "recommended" for this diver. In case of PADI, that "Recommendation card" (Lets call it that instead a a certification card) can be obtained with a 5 dive sampler in which one dive needs to be below the OW depth limit.

If I wanted to get the same "recommendation card" from PSAI then here is what I would need:

4 Dives under instructor supervision.

Dive # 1 to 70 feet
Dive # 2 to 80 feet
Dive # 3 to 90 feet
Dive # 4 to 100 (as far as I remember).

In the end, both "recommendation cards" will let me get on the same charter boat but which Agency is putting me on the boat with more training?

 

[boulderjohn]

Purely for insurance and legal purposes, boat operators who are taking me for a 100 ft dive need to see a plastic card that implies that a certain depth-range has been "recommended" for this diver. In case of PADI, that "Recommendation card" (Lets call it that instead a a certification card) can be obtained with a 5 dive sampler in which one dive needs to be below the OW depth limit.

If I wanted to get the same "recommendation card" from PSAI then here is what I would need:

4 Dives under instructor supervision.

Dive # 1 to 70 feet
Dive # 2 to 80 feet
Dive # 3 to 90 feet
Dive # 4 to 100 (as far as I remember).

In the end, both "recommendation cards" will let me get on the same charter boat but which Agency is putting me on the boat with more training?

PSAI is indeed putting you on the boat with more required training. What's the point? What if I thought that the training I got with one dive was all I needed to be able to go to those depths? Why should I be required to do those extra dives and pay for that extra experience? What will I learn on the 80 foot dive that I did not learn on the 70 foot dive? If I decide that I want to have those extra dives with an instructor, what is stopping me from getting them?

 

[tursiops]

Purely for insurance and legal purposes, boat operators who are taking me for a 100 ft dive need to see a plastic card that implies that a certain depth-range has been "recommended" for this diver. In case of PADI, that "Recommendation card" (Lets call it that instead a a certification card) can be obtained with a 5 dive sampler in which one dive needs to be below the OW depth limit.

If I wanted to get the same "recommendation card" from PSAI then here is what I would need:

4 Dives under instructor supervision.

Dive # 1 to 70 feet
Dive # 2 to 80 feet
Dive # 3 to 90 feet
Dive # 4 to 100 (as far as I remember).

In the end, both "recommendation cards" will let me get on the same charter boat but which Agency is putting me on the boat with more training?

Do four dives with PADI for the Deep specialty and then you've got the actual training for 130 ft. Why are you insisting on comparing a single AOW deep dive with a four-dive full specialty?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

[ScubaSteve1962]

Purely for insurance and legal purposes, boat operators who are taking me for a 100 ft dive need to see a plastic card that implies that a certain depth-range has been "recommended" for this diver. In case of PADI, that "Recommendation card" (Lets call it that instead a a certification card) can be obtained with a 5 dive sampler in which one dive needs to be below the OW depth limit.

If I wanted to get the same "recommendation card" from PSAI then here is what I would need:

4 Dives under instructor supervision.

Dive # 1 to 70 feet
Dive # 2 to 80 feet
Dive # 3 to 90 feet
Dive # 4 to 100 (as far as I remember).

In the end, both "recommendation cards" will let me get on the same charter boat but which Agency is putting me on the boat with more training?

Or you could do padi's deep diver

Your training starts by reviewing reasons for deep diving and how important it is to know your personal limits. During four deep dives with your instructor, you’ll go over:

• Specialized deep diving equipment.
• Deep dive planning, buddy contact procedures and buoyancy control.
• Managing your gas supply, dealing with gas narcosis and safety considerations.

 

[LACounty4806]

The comparison is, frankly, silly.

The AOW certification was created by the Los Angeles County organization with the intention of trying to deal with the high dropout rate of OW divers. The purpose was to introduce divers to different kinds of diving in order to keep them interested. It was and still is intended to be an extension of OW training.

GUE fundamentals was created for the purpose of preparing divers for cave diving. It was intended to be an intense program that would prepare students for extreme rigors required for the world's most dangerous diving.

According to their original designs, anyone who takes GUE Fundamentals should have completed AOW (or its equivalent) long before. To compare the two is like comparing an algebra class to a precalculus class and then dissing on the algebra class because it is not as thorough as the precalculus class.

Hi John. I don't know what your experience is with Los Angeles County program but I have to assume it's limited. First of all, ADP's not a program designed to stem diver drop out. It was designed in 1964 to develop the best and safest divers possible short of the professional certification for conditions that would be typical of what divers would face diving in Southern California. It is involved and it is demanding. It is not a 3 day, 4 AOW dive course that you may have experienced but rather a 10 week program with 100+ instruction hours, multiple pool training dives, and over a dozen open water dives in various conditions and situations. To pass it requires dedication and commitment.

To compare the 2 is silly. GUE fundies may be precalc of cave diving but ADP is designed to be a graduate school for divers.

 

[Ouvea]

Hi LACounty4806:

What does the Los Angeles County program highlight and emphasize in its course? In truth, this would help prospective divers in choosing their education path. Too often, we hear that one agency is better than the other without specifics. GUE stresses the importance of pre-determining/planning dive profiles exposures and having the necessary equipment to support these goals. In water, it stresses the importance of horizontal trim, buoyancy, efficient propulsion and good team dynamics.

Could you give us a run down on one of the most popular courses offered by the LAC organization? Thanks for your input.