I have a day job and instruct at a small local shop. No way I could ever make a living at it and the shop has to do travel stuff just to make it work. I don't make much money at it but I do enjoy it. If that is what your looking for.
AOW to DM
- Thread starter RosiePaw
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Rosie, start with your LDS. They are your best resource. If they cant provide you with an internship directly they can almost always find you a slot somewhere else within the local, national or international community. They may even be able to hook you up with an independent instructor that may take you on as a leadership candidate. Don't be afraid or rule out cross agency training either (like CMAS, SEI, NAUI, SSI, etc).
In short, lots of options, just keep your options open
)
---------- Post Merged at 12:14 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 11:51 AM ----------
I disagree, I think the disdain is more about the fast track process that does not guarantee a student has developed the needed skills to safely and effectively teach others. Does it need to take 2 years to become an Instructor? For some, maybe, but not all. Getting it in 2 weeks? Maybe, for some, but not all.
With the liability associated with teaching and leading, you may be better off with a longer course. If you go to court over a mishap which looks more professional to a jury?
In short, lots of options, just keep your options open
)---------- Post Merged at 12:14 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 11:51 AM ----------
I disagree, I think the disdain is more about the fast track process that does not guarantee a student has developed the needed skills to safely and effectively teach others. Does it need to take 2 years to become an Instructor? For some, maybe, but not all. Getting it in 2 weeks? Maybe, for some, but not all.
With the liability associated with teaching and leading, you may be better off with a longer course. If you go to court over a mishap which looks more professional to a jury?
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I agree with ScubaToneDog. Aside from the subject matter, a big factor regarding "teaching and leading" would be how much of a "natural" you are. How do you think you fare regarding that? I know that I was a heck of a better school teacher by my 3rd year. I took a year and a half doing DM, but rapport with students wasn't an issue, it was perfecting skills and getting in swimming shape for the 400 meter test.
Why do you think there are so many of these places? Is it because there are not enough instructors to go around? No. It's because like quickie OW divers they are constantly being replaced. Why? Cause many of them don't stay in it for very long once they find out the truth of the business. The sun, fun, glamor, and hot looking people teaching smiling compliant students in paradise and making a good living is a lie. It is often very long hours, hard work, dealing with less than appreciative customers, and for barely enough to eat or have a roof over your head. Often it means a second job to pay for one or the other.
Internships to learn a trade or skill do not involve mopping floors, (unless you're going to be a janitor), emptying rinse buckets, or hawking gear in the shop. If other people are getting paid to do that then why are you taking their jobs. You are paying to learn a "profession". Thinking of doing this for free boat rides is one big problem with the whole system. They are not free! They are compensation for services. If you are helping with a class on these dives as an intern that is your compensation for doing it. If you are doing dives as part of your training for skills then you already paid for that with your tuition. Janitorial duties take jobs from locals who may desperately need the money. Not only are you doing it for free, you are paying to do it!
And as another poster noted just because you got that instructor card, it does not mean you are qualified to teach every person that comes along. It damn well should, but we have had numerous posts on here from new instructors that don't feel confident to teach their first class unsupervised. If that's the case they should not have a card. There are DM's that have some of the worst skills I have seen. They have no idea how to plan an emergency deco stop. They can't tell a new diver how to do a proper weight check as they are overweighted.
A new instructor should be able to teach any open water class in their local area with zero assistance. The problem with many of these places is people travel to them to do the bulk of their experience and get a bunch of dives in warm clear water then go home to where there is low vis, temps that require heavy wetsuits or drysuits, and they are lost. They come back home and have no idea how to handle teaching in their local conditions. They can't get work, they can't get students, and they realize they are in over their heads and lose interest.
I dive where I live. As do the people I care about.
During these internships how many students have they certed themselves? Or did the bulk of the teaching? I'd wager not a lot. So then they are going to come back to my area and expect to teach someone I care about when they have so little experience in diving with heavy suits or drysuits? When they consider 20 feet poor vis? When they have to make sure someone is not getting hypothermic on the first dive in 50 degree water and they think 70 degrees is cold water? Or when they can't answer what to do when a person overshoots thier NDL on a deep dive other than by giving a BS answer like stay at the safety stop for 5-8 minutes and actually call it the safety stop? When it really is now a mandatory deco stop.
Nah, I don't consider them qualified to look after someone I care about if that's where their skill and knowledge levels are.
Internships to learn a trade or skill do not involve mopping floors, (unless you're going to be a janitor), emptying rinse buckets, or hawking gear in the shop. If other people are getting paid to do that then why are you taking their jobs. You are paying to learn a "profession". Thinking of doing this for free boat rides is one big problem with the whole system. They are not free! They are compensation for services. If you are helping with a class on these dives as an intern that is your compensation for doing it. If you are doing dives as part of your training for skills then you already paid for that with your tuition. Janitorial duties take jobs from locals who may desperately need the money. Not only are you doing it for free, you are paying to do it!
And as another poster noted just because you got that instructor card, it does not mean you are qualified to teach every person that comes along. It damn well should, but we have had numerous posts on here from new instructors that don't feel confident to teach their first class unsupervised. If that's the case they should not have a card. There are DM's that have some of the worst skills I have seen. They have no idea how to plan an emergency deco stop. They can't tell a new diver how to do a proper weight check as they are overweighted.
A new instructor should be able to teach any open water class in their local area with zero assistance. The problem with many of these places is people travel to them to do the bulk of their experience and get a bunch of dives in warm clear water then go home to where there is low vis, temps that require heavy wetsuits or drysuits, and they are lost. They come back home and have no idea how to handle teaching in their local conditions. They can't get work, they can't get students, and they realize they are in over their heads and lose interest.
I dive where I live. As do the people I care about.
During these internships how many students have they certed themselves? Or did the bulk of the teaching? I'd wager not a lot. So then they are going to come back to my area and expect to teach someone I care about when they have so little experience in diving with heavy suits or drysuits? When they consider 20 feet poor vis? When they have to make sure someone is not getting hypothermic on the first dive in 50 degree water and they think 70 degrees is cold water? Or when they can't answer what to do when a person overshoots thier NDL on a deep dive other than by giving a BS answer like stay at the safety stop for 5-8 minutes and actually call it the safety stop? When it really is now a mandatory deco stop.
Nah, I don't consider them qualified to look after someone I care about if that's where their skill and knowledge levels are.
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My disdain would come from the large numbers of instructors that actually have very poor diving skills, and this comes largely from modularized programs, and a rush to run a diver through all the way to instructor. What it needs, is for the diver to become a really good diver first, and then to begin working to DM and then Instructor.
What we get, is that Zero to Hero concept, even in the ones that take over a year. Ultimately, there are "a few good instructors". I think it is safe to say that if a non-diving friend was to ask if they could just get certified at any dive store, most of us would have to say NO! There are too many "marginals" teaching. Too many that were allowed to blow through the system, and never really get good at the component pieces. Too many that are not even good buddies.
If there was some way blowing through like this could get you rich, there might be a bad excuse for this...but the reality is, becoming an Instructor is NOT the path you chose if you want a comfortable income in your future....A few instructors get this, most will not. A few are great. Most are not
Jim, I see you point, and in some ways I agree with you, but the way I read it, you think an instructor who did an internship is less well trained than one who didn't, ignoring the environment they were trained in. A new instructor who didn't do an internship is not guaranteed to feel comfortable teaching their first class unsupervised either, I think that reflects more what training they received as opposed to what format they received it in. Will I be nervous when I teach my first class? Yes, but I don't feel like I'd need to be supervised. My internship ended when my DM application got signed, so I didn't formally teach anybody anything, and since I'm still waiting for the paperwork to be processed, I still haven't, but how many people are non-internship pro candidates teaching?
I'm willing to admit I don't have enough cold water experience to teach here, but I intend to get it before I'd even consider trying (I intend to get it anyway, but that's not the point); I can dive here, but I'm not ready to teach here, nor am I sure at the current moment that I want to. I'm at a point in my life where I can move south for a few years before finding/settling into a career here and teaching on the side. In that sense, I trained where I intend to teach... I know my limitations, but I know that isn't true for every new instructor, internship-grad or not.
I'm willing to admit I don't have enough cold water experience to teach here, but I intend to get it before I'd even consider trying (I intend to get it anyway, but that's not the point); I can dive here, but I'm not ready to teach here, nor am I sure at the current moment that I want to. I'm at a point in my life where I can move south for a few years before finding/settling into a career here and teaching on the side. In that sense, I trained where I intend to teach... I know my limitations, but I know that isn't true for every new instructor, internship-grad or not.
It´s funny, because I am a zero to hero instructor in a way (the DM and Inst portions), but way more experienced I believe than a lot of them, and I don´t like the zero-to-hero in any form. It all depends how you break it down. I have been diving since 2001 and have enough dives under my belt, in enough different settings. But then again I did Rescue/DM/Instructor in probably what´s equivalent to a year in 2011. So Im a pretty new instructor too. But I have also taken Advanced Nitrox and Deco Procedures with extended range, then Trimix. I have also done a Full Cave course. Add to that quite a few tech dives during all that time in both diving and classes settings (assisting tech courses), and some other courses like sidemount and Im soon getting my air dil rebreather.
The point is I waited a long time before I thought about becoming an instructor for something I had been mentoring people in for many years. It kind of made sense to be able to properly teach. When I attended my DM and IDC I was very disappointed at the level of people attending this courses. As divers and even as people. They weren´t prepared in anything (most of them, of course Im generalizing). This is not "la creme de la creme". Let´s be honest. It´s also a "profession" that attracts lots of slackers, or young people just looking what to do with their gap year, or people that just want to chill out for a bit, and also attracts good for nothings as well sorry to say. So, while doing my DM internship and my IDC, I was very disappointed at the "quality" of divers/people that was about to become instructors and would be "revered" as experts in the subject.
So be truth to yourself. If you want to be a good instructor, become a good diver. Take tech, advanced courses. Invest in becoming a good diver. If you go to an instructor factory or not, makes less difference than you being responsible for your own education. Read books, internet, view videos, inform yourself, like in any profession, be your best. Being a good instructor should imply at least being a good diver to begin with. Many aren´t. Many don´t even know anything about diving beyond 500psi back at the boat. Because that´s what the agencies curricula cover from OW to OWSI.
It is your responsibility being the best you can.
The point is I waited a long time before I thought about becoming an instructor for something I had been mentoring people in for many years. It kind of made sense to be able to properly teach. When I attended my DM and IDC I was very disappointed at the level of people attending this courses. As divers and even as people. They weren´t prepared in anything (most of them, of course Im generalizing). This is not "la creme de la creme". Let´s be honest. It´s also a "profession" that attracts lots of slackers, or young people just looking what to do with their gap year, or people that just want to chill out for a bit, and also attracts good for nothings as well sorry to say. So, while doing my DM internship and my IDC, I was very disappointed at the "quality" of divers/people that was about to become instructors and would be "revered" as experts in the subject.
So be truth to yourself. If you want to be a good instructor, become a good diver. Take tech, advanced courses. Invest in becoming a good diver. If you go to an instructor factory or not, makes less difference than you being responsible for your own education. Read books, internet, view videos, inform yourself, like in any profession, be your best. Being a good instructor should imply at least being a good diver to begin with. Many aren´t. Many don´t even know anything about diving beyond 500psi back at the boat. Because that´s what the agencies curricula cover from OW to OWSI.
It is your responsibility being the best you can.
I see a bit of a point to both sides. Short story I think you get out of it what you put in.
Personally I got certified as a kid, and years later returned to diving. Absolutely fell in love with it and knew that I wanted to teach. I went from AOW to DM in 4 months and 2 months later passed my IE. I had some fantastic instructors that I worked with over the summer and some not so great ones and I learned so much from both. Yeah I spent most of my DM training being slave labor (it was a crap dive shop). But I did get chances to dive and ALOT of chances to assist on courses. Not always on my shop days though. Multiple times I had to give up my 1 day off (1 day every 2 weeks, who does that?!?!?) to assist on a course because the owner wouldn't let me during the week. But, with this experience I learned exactly what I will never ever put my student through and I learned some techniques that really work. On the flip side though, there were 4 other DMTs at the same time as me. Only 1 of which I have any desire to ever dive with again. 1 went from DSD to DM in 2 months (poor girl couldn't even figure out how to stop for a safety stop, tended to rocket to the surface no matter how deep she was). So in that situation, no I don't think rushing her through everything did anyone any good. She also refused to carry her own equipment, but that's another story. This same girl also copied the answers to all her KRs offline and cheated on her tests etc. However, the other girl is a fantastic diver. Not a zero to hero, but she studied and studied and studied and made sure she knew everything there was to know and if she didn't know she asked. I think it's really what you put into it is what you get out of it. So if some is prepared to go into it 100% and really really try to learn and be aware and observe than I think zero to hero will be just fine. But if they're going to expect that doing the bare minimum and slacking the whole time will turn them into a DM they need to reevaluate.
As for crap instructors....it doesn't matter how long they've been diving there are just way too many that should never pass. I am specifically thinking back to my IE where one of the students had the CESA as an OW skill. The IE told me to spit out my reg for the error. Made it to the surface without a reg in, the guy still doesn't notice still i start miming it to him, finally tells me to go back down and do it again. IE tells me to breathe the whole way up, guy never notices and still passes the IE. My question is should he be allowed to teach? Probably not. I assisted on 5 OW courses after I became an instructor before teaching my first one and I'm so glad I did. I also had another instructor at the shop where I taught my first OW giving me advice and letting me bounce questions off of him and I'm quite grateful for that, but I could have done it myself. I think this again comes back to the level of personal responsibility. It's not about time between OW and DM or OWSI, it's about making sure that you personally are ready and have the experience necessary to safely and effectively do your job.
Personally I got certified as a kid, and years later returned to diving. Absolutely fell in love with it and knew that I wanted to teach. I went from AOW to DM in 4 months and 2 months later passed my IE. I had some fantastic instructors that I worked with over the summer and some not so great ones and I learned so much from both. Yeah I spent most of my DM training being slave labor (it was a crap dive shop). But I did get chances to dive and ALOT of chances to assist on courses. Not always on my shop days though. Multiple times I had to give up my 1 day off (1 day every 2 weeks, who does that?!?!?) to assist on a course because the owner wouldn't let me during the week. But, with this experience I learned exactly what I will never ever put my student through and I learned some techniques that really work. On the flip side though, there were 4 other DMTs at the same time as me. Only 1 of which I have any desire to ever dive with again. 1 went from DSD to DM in 2 months (poor girl couldn't even figure out how to stop for a safety stop, tended to rocket to the surface no matter how deep she was). So in that situation, no I don't think rushing her through everything did anyone any good. She also refused to carry her own equipment, but that's another story. This same girl also copied the answers to all her KRs offline and cheated on her tests etc. However, the other girl is a fantastic diver. Not a zero to hero, but she studied and studied and studied and made sure she knew everything there was to know and if she didn't know she asked. I think it's really what you put into it is what you get out of it. So if some is prepared to go into it 100% and really really try to learn and be aware and observe than I think zero to hero will be just fine. But if they're going to expect that doing the bare minimum and slacking the whole time will turn them into a DM they need to reevaluate.
As for crap instructors....it doesn't matter how long they've been diving there are just way too many that should never pass. I am specifically thinking back to my IE where one of the students had the CESA as an OW skill. The IE told me to spit out my reg for the error. Made it to the surface without a reg in, the guy still doesn't notice still i start miming it to him, finally tells me to go back down and do it again. IE tells me to breathe the whole way up, guy never notices and still passes the IE. My question is should he be allowed to teach? Probably not. I assisted on 5 OW courses after I became an instructor before teaching my first one and I'm so glad I did. I also had another instructor at the shop where I taught my first OW giving me advice and letting me bounce questions off of him and I'm quite grateful for that, but I could have done it myself. I think this again comes back to the level of personal responsibility. It's not about time between OW and DM or OWSI, it's about making sure that you personally are ready and have the experience necessary to safely and effectively do your job.
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