AOW class shows that Scubaboard standards exceed those in the real world

[2airishuman]

Thanks to all who replied.

AOW = "Adventure" Open Water.
Have fun!

I had fun with the night dive and the search and recovery dive (see below).

This is why I have minimum entry requirements for AOW and will only take 2 students at a time. Unless a 3rd is really on their game.
"We'll sorta pair up in the water." ????? That would be enough to for me to say screw it and go home.
I hope you're not paying more than 100 bucks for this. If that.

At some point, I may take TDI advanced nitrox/deco procedures, and if I do, I'm going to be much more picky about the instructor I choose and the setting in which the dives take place.

The only reason I was with this outfit is that they are the only local dive shop in a certain area that I wanted to learn more about.

Jim, you'd be especially amused that they asked me what kind of regulator I had, because they wanted to be sure it was environmentally sealed. I told them I had a HOG D1, and they said they had been in the dive industry for 20+ years and never heard of a HOG D1, and asked me to explain myself.

I always tell people I learned to dive 3 times... the first in 1969 by a Master Chief at Orlando's Naval Base, then I received an actual cert right around the turn of the century and finally right here on ScubaBoard. Have fun, dive safe post details!

ScubaBoard has been a great resource in my diving journey.

So far, I would NOT go diving with these guys in any circumstances let alone pay them anything. This is HORRIBLE!!!

My thoughts too. It was bad.

Well, in the end you will get that plastic card that shuts up dive ops who would rather sell you an AOW class than a boat ride.

+1. And I got to try some new locations.

Either the OP's report is inaccurate, or the class was not meeting standards.

I am not familiar with PADI's standards so I can't comment with specificity.

My biggest criticism of the actual instruction itself (leaving aside handling of introductions, pairing up buddies, times, mosquito mitigation, lights, etc) was that I did not feel that the instructor spent enough time making sure that the students learned the skills. I checked the profile on my dive computer and the peak performance buoyancy and nav portions of the dive were, together, under half an hour of bottom time. We did spend some time at the surface discussing, but still, it felt rushed. The night dive, while long enough to have instructional value (about 30 minutes), would perhaps have been more fun with another half hour of bottom time.

 

[2airishuman]

The second day was better. We had the deep dive and the search and recovery dive.

Everyone was on time.

During the short classroom session, I told the instructor I was planning to bring my pony cylinder for the deep dive unless there was a problem with that. He said it was OK.

The deep dive was (IMO) managed much more responsibly than the earlier dives, perhaps because PADI's standards are more prescriptive in this area. The instructor took us down two at a time, and we descended a steeply sloping bottom, gradually, to around 80 feet. Instructor had a 40cf pony cylinder, I had a smaller one. I was buddied up with Pink Fins again, nominally, although the instructor was watching her very closely. Instructor and Pink Fins were cold and Pink Fins was (I later learned) already a little narced so we stayed only briefly and went back up. We were all diving wet in 7mm but I had a freediving suit and was warm. I would have liked to go to 100 feet to try to better understand the limits of my suit and my reaction to narcosis at that depth, but I didn't expect it.

The search and recovery dive went OK and I think I probably learned the most from this one. We recovered a small object and a small boat motor. It is not at all uncommon for recreational divers to be asked to recover boat motors in this area so it was a well chosen thing to practice. Used several search patterns. I think the practice the previous day had helped the other divers somewhat, particularly with buoyancy and with gear familiarity.

 

[Doby45]

Jim, you'd be especially amused that they asked me what kind of regulator I had, because they wanted to be sure it was environmentally sealed. I told them I had a HOG D1, and they said they had been in the dive industry for 20+ years and never heard of a HOG D1, and asked me to explain myself.

Where exactly were you diving that they more or less "required" you to have sealed regs?

 

[NAM001]

2airishuman

Its my opinion that you are not trolling after the many threads and posts you have been involved in. My first thought was now you have witnessed first hand the events, like so many others have, that are the basis for so many threads such as. selling certs. requiring min AOW for >60 foot dives salt water dives, why you dive solo, buddy liability, diving limits and so many more. You have now graduated form the sand box to the beech world. You classes form now on are not going to be so rinky dink as they will be more specialty centered than the path you have been on so far. Those classes I refer to are the more technical ones such s adv nitrox ect. Take your time and before jumping into them. there is a lot to say for giving your meal time to digest before desert. Do however get the necessary and rinky courses out of the way for your master card. Give you self a few years before you dive into deco trimix and overhead courses.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Where exactly were you diving that they more or less "required" you to have sealed regs?

If I'm not mistaken he is in Minnesota. Deep means cold. I teach in SW Pa and also require sealed regs for the deep dive since that usually means a trip to Ohio to dive Gilboa quarry. Temps below 70 feet are high 30's to low 40's depending on the time of year. Right now they are about 40-42 and won't get any warmer.

 

[Bob DBF]

We were all diving wet in 7mm but I had a freediving suit and was warm. I would have liked to go to 100 feet to try to better understand the limits of my suit and my reaction to narcosis at that depth, but I didn't expect it.

Make sure you have a buddy that is experienced deep before playing with narcosis. Also, freedive suits are made for short excursions to depth, if you use it with SCUBA it may fail prematurely. Check with the shop and/or manufacturer about the material's ability to rebound after prolonged use at depth.



Bob

 

[2airishuman]

Where exactly were you diving that they more or less "required" you to have sealed regs?

Jim is correct. We were in a freshwater lake in Minnesota. My dive computer recorded 43 degrees.

My instructor indicated that our class was unusual in that there were no freeflows. He said they typically have at least one minor 2nd stage freeflow every time they teach the deep dive class.

2airishuman

Its my opinion that you are not trolling after the many threads and posts you have been involved in. My first thought was now you have witnessed first hand the events, like so many others have, that are the basis for so many threads such as. selling certs. requiring min AOW for >60 foot dives salt water dives, why you dive solo, buddy liability, diving limits and so many more. You have now graduated form the sand box to the beech world. You classes form now on are not going to be so rinky dink as they will be more specialty centered than the path you have been on so far. Those classes I refer to are the more technical ones such s adv nitrox ect. Take your time and before jumping into them. there is a lot to say for giving your meal time to digest before desert. Do however get the necessary and rinky courses out of the way for your master card. Give you self a few years before you dive into deco trimix and overhead courses.

Thanks, KWS, that helps in many ways. Lake Superior is more or less in my back yard, and with it what some would say is the best wreck diving in the world. A drysuit will be the next step for me, then some exploration of the more shallow wrecks in Superior. That should open up enough dives to keep me busy for a while before I feel like deco is a necessary step.

Make sure you have a buddy that is experienced deep before playing with narcosis. Also, freedive suits are made for short excursions to depth, if you use it with SCUBA it may fail prematurely. Check with the shop and/or manufacturer about the material's ability to rebound after prolonged use at depth.

Thanks for that. I doubt if I will be on any deep dives until I am in Key West next spring, when I'm hoping to dive the Vandenberg. I'll be with someone I trust.

 

[Storker]

My dive computer recorded 43 degrees.

My instructor indicated that our class was unusual in that there were no freeflows. He said they typically have at least one minor 2nd stage freeflow every time they teach the deep dive class.

IME 2nd stage freeflows are par for the course at those temps. At least on the surface after the dive, and particularly if the air is below freezing. It's annoying, but far from dramatic.

 

[tursiops]

I checked the profile on my dive computer and the peak performance buoyancy and nav portions of the dive were, together, under half an hour of bottom time. We did spend some time at the surface discussing, but still, it felt rushed. The night dive, while long enough to have instructional value (about 30 minutes), would perhaps have been more fun with another half hour of bottom time.

I am inferring that you did one dive combining PPB and navigation, with perhaps some time (how much?) at the surface in the middle, and the combined bottom time was less than 30 minutes. Correct?

Tell me about the Nav dive; what did you do on it?

 

[2airishuman]

I am inferring that you did one dive combining PPB and navigation, with perhaps some time (how much?) at the surface in the middle, and the combined bottom time was less than 30 minutes. Correct?

My earlier post ("under 30 minutes") wasn't accurate. Sloppy post on my part, I guess, sorry.

The exact bottom time was 35 minutes per my computer, which also recorded a max depth of 25 feet and a minimum temperature of 68 degrees. The surface interval in the midst of this was less than 20 minutes, because otherwise my computer would have recorded two separate dives, which it didn't.

Tell me about the Nav dive; what did you do on it?

I was the only student who had showed up for class in possession of a compass, so the instructor dispensed compasses to everyone else before the dive. There was a briefing where the instructor explained the use of the bezel, the lubber line, the reference points, and talked about the importance of holding the compass level. There was also mention of local magnetic disturbances in some area lakes (but not the one where our nav dive took place) and the topography that could cause them.

During the dive, we counted kicks while swimming along a measured 50' line, then used our kick count to determine distance for two exercises, one going out on a heading then back, next, navigating a 50' square using the cardinal points of the compass.

I'll digress here by saying that I've done a lot of underwater compass work in my dives over the last few months. I've been on a couple of river dives where the viz was only a couple feet, with the current being extremely strong in the center of the channel down to moderate on the sides. It's really easy to get turned around with the current doing tricks and no visual reference but the bottom, and so it's a great environment to internalize the lesson that the compass is (in most cases and when properly used) smarter than your brain. The lake dives where the viz is better still have maybe 10' viz, so it's pretty common for me to navigate by surfacing, sighting a heading to wherever I'm going, and then swimming that heading along the bottom.

For the nav dives I was buddied up with Pink Fins again. We were supposed to do the nav dives as a team, and I encouraged Pink Fins to handle the compass since this was old hat for me. I would make sure we stayed at a consistent depth. We swam in circles all over the lake on the first couple of attempts, then traded roles, and I took us in a square pattern beginning and ending at the platform. I didn't get it perfect but was within maybe 6-8' of our starting point. Instructor was happy we were able to do it, and since the other buddy pair had already completed the exercise, that concluded the dive.

I never took a good look at the compasses the other students were using, but I suspect they weren't very good. Perhaps that was part of her trouble. Then again one of the other students (not Pink Fins) was using a compass to good effect to swim expanding squares for the recovery dive.

Throughout the dives our instructor did point out landmarks, mostly topographic ones, and mention their utility for navigation. We also talked through some things, like dealing with current, that we didn't encounter in our dive environment.