AOW Class Max Depth 65 ft. ?????

[ScubaSam]

I am not sure if I'm posting in the right forum so Mods feel free to move if there is a more appropriate forum.

I am bothered by a PM exchange between a SBer, who I will call Ann (not real name), and I. Ann knows I am posting about our PM exchange and I have her permission to do so.

This weekend, Ann is taking AOW and was informed by her instructor that their deep dive would be 65 ft. in the local quarry. With Irene's recent visit, max depth in quarry is now 110 ft. Her specialty dives will be navigation, deep, buoyancy, wreck and naturalist. Ann wanted Search & Recovery as a specialty dive but it was not offered as an option. When Ann asked why the deep dive was only to 65 ft, the instructor said it's too far a swim to get to the really deep spots.

Ann called the LDS and spoke to the shop owner who said they go to 65 ft because it doesn't make a difference really for what they are doing. Ann asked about S&R as a specialty dive but owner said they choose the dives that make the most sense and are the most convenient for them and for the student. Yes, owner said, "for them" first.

The class is paid for in full. Ann plans to go through with the class.. She realizes after our PM exchanges that she will think twice in the future and ask more questions before signing up for any more classes with this particular LDS.

For my AOW, I remember going to 90s/100s ft and being handed a slate by the instructor to do math and puzzles at depth. My specialty dive option list was not limited by what was convenient to the LDS. I can't help think that the LDS is dong the bare minimum requirements for Ann's class.

Curious what is your opinion on how this LDS is handling Ann's AOW class?

 

[redacted]

Why is Ann taking AOW? I suspect she would learn more about narcosis with a deeper dive but if 65 ft meets the training agency standards, then I guess that is all that is needed.

 

[racerx_]

I've seen some dive shops that don't offer all specialties for various reasons (no wrecks around, blah blah) and some that only offer a specific set of 5 so no choosing. That's why I didn't do my AOW with them. The idea behind AOW as I understand it is that you get to CHOOSE some specialty dives that you would like to explore/experience besides the two required ones so it's a bit weird that they pick it for you and I wouldn't be comfortable with that.

My deep dive was to 25meters (82ft) as visibility was getting very bad... But we didn't do any of the math stuff, etc trying to show the effects of narcosis because instructor forgot the underwater pencil on the boat (I found out later). Dunno if there would have been any at that depth anyway but you never know. It was an alright dive, but I felt that it was a waste of the deep dive cause I didn't learn anything..

 

[smorneau]

I am taking NAUI AOW right now, I was talking to my instuctor the other day and he said the max that NAUI is allowed to do during a class is 80ft. We have already done the deep dive and we went to 95ft. 60ft is also the max depth NAUI say OW certified divers should not exceed. It sounds like your instructor/LDS is being lazy by only doing such a shallow deep dive. Not sure what PADI or SSI says about this.

 

[Insta-Gator]

At least they did a dive. For my AOW deep dive specialty, the instructor flipped through my logbook after asking me about my deep dive experience (frequently to 70+, some 100' and one 120') so he didn't bother about doing the deep dive. All signed off, AOW card, class fee in the bank.

Now that's diving instruction! (sarcasm)

 

[abyss_scuba]

As a dive shop owner I can see both side of the argument. 65 ft is not what I would call a deep dive, but technically it is beyond the 60 foot open water depth rating. Dutch springs is where I take students and I make them swim out to the army truck which lies in about 80 + depending on conditions, yes it is a good swim but you are telling me you are up to being awarded a "advanced" diver rating. As for what I offer if I let every one pick a unique set of dives I could be out there all week end doing 1 Nat Geo, 1 DPV,... you get the idea. I try to do Deep, Nav, Night, S&R and depending on their skills either Bouyancy or Wreck. You have to do Deep and Navigation, I do try to do dives that mean something, I will not charge some one for "boat" diver, yes even LDS owners have a cinscious. As to the specialty the S&R can count as the first dive towards a specialty and that shouldn't even be an issue.

 

[TMHeimer]

My AOW Deep one was to maybe 70'. I know logistics come into play, but I think if AOW "certifies" you to go to 100' your deep dive should BE to 100'. Ideally, At least one OW checkout dive should be to the recommended OW depth of 60' since that's what you are "certified" to do. And the heck with these new "graduated' drivers' licenses. Do the same old test from 40 years ago but require the student driver to GO ON THE HIGHWAY as part of the course/test since that's what a new driver is allowed to do.....

 

[VooDooGasMan]

SS how many are in class, are the other students holding depth back, ann will not know till dive day. If she is not happy now, what makes you think ann will be happy for the course, it could get worse, does ann need card for dive trip.

I would go and tell shop and instructor you want a more experience dives at deeper depths, as you need to be able to accomplish these depths with no fear of failure when not under instruction.

I WOULD THINK THE REST OF THE CLASS WOULD BE HOAKY ALSO.

 

[SandyRobinson]

It sounds like your instructor/LDS is being lazy by only doing such a shallow deep dive.

I agree. I guess technically it is deep since it is over 60. But in my opinion, there is not much difference in 60 or 65. I am guessing the agency "limit" for deep diving is 100 to 130. It would make more sense to take a diver to 100' to be able to show her what happens at depth when you try basic skills at depth.

 

[Bubbletrubble]

@ScubaSam: Your concern is that your friend isn't getting her money's worth. I see it a little bit differently, I think.

In my PADI AOW class, we went down to 100 fsw. We unlocked a combo lock at depth and compared it to our performance on the task at the surface. I didn't learn much from the exercise, since my times were identical. Honestly, there are much better ways to demonstrate the effects of narcosis. I didn't learn any gas management skills on that dive either. The extent of our dive plan was to tell the instructor when we got down to 1500 psi so that we could initiate our ascent. Another missed learning opportunity if you ask me.

I cringe whenever I hear divers say that they've never been narced. It belies a certain naivete about the phenomenon, which in actuality manifests at much shallower depths than 100 fsw. It probably means that they've never applied the appropriate "tests" to bring out narcosis-related cognitive deficits. It's arguably much safer for a diver to respect the effects of narcosis and operate under the assumption that whenever she is conducting a dive, she is functioning at a diminished mental capacity...it's just a question of how diminished.

I suppose I'd be OK with how Ann's AOW class is being run. If the AOW instructor isn't going to teach proper gas management skills (I wasn't taught them in my AOW class), then perhaps it would be best to limit the max depth to 65 fsw or ffw. I think gas management should be taught in basic OW class, but that's just me. Hopefully, Ann doesn't see completion of the "advanced" class as evidence that she is now an advanced/experienced diver.