AOW and Rescue courses

[simbrooks]

Recently there has been some discussion about AOW and rescue certs. Some of these have focused upon certain organizations or one of the other cert. See:

http://www.scubaboard.com/t42909/s.html PADI vs. SSI
http://www.scubaboard.com/t43020/s.html Rescue Cert Timing
http://www.scubaboard.com/t41864/s.html Is AOW worth doing?

As recent OW graduates and still on a very steep learning curve, as well as reading the various posts in these above threads, and also being PADI certified (the PR from this was making us think that we should take the AOW and then rescue courses with them because that is the only way!), my GF and I would like to continue our education and be safer divers with each other and if we are ever diving apart with other buddies. I am not after an agency bashing thread, I am genuinely interested in what people have derived from various courses, I understand that these courses can differ by the instructor, but beyond that which you can control by choice, I was wondering if anyone had further details on these courses beyond what I have found online (by completing these courses recently or teaching them)? We have also read that it is recommended to take rescue asap after OW, and that AOW should be taken somewhere in the 15-25 dive range once you are more comfortable with buoyancy et al.

Below is my list of agencies with descriptions of what I could find online (in no order):

PADI:
AOW – can be done pretty much after OW, requires 5 dives, I each of nav and deep, other 3 one dive mini-specializations, small amount of class time (15hrs).
Rescue – pre-req of AOW, CPR/1st aid class. Course consists of 25 hrs and 5 dives (mostly surface swims I believe) and covers self rescue, 1st aid, management and equipment, assists (non/swim), panicked diver, u/w problems, missing diver, surfacing unconscious diver, inwater rescue, exits, scenarios, 1st aid from pressure injuries (DCI?).

NAUI:
AOW – 6 dives (min), 1 each of nav, night, deep, 3 other mini-specializations, 2 dives >20ft. Class time???
Basic Rescue – pre-req possibly CPR/1st aid if not taught as part of class. 12 hours class time and min 1 dive, upto 3 dives, includes assists, transport, surface/depth rescue.
Advanced Rescue – pre-req of basic rescue/1st aid, CPR and O2, and AOW. Accident supervision/management, prevention, scenarios, initiate/perform/supervise assists/rescue, post rescue 1st aid, swimming/towing skills.

SSI: (website is by far the most vague I could find, have to speak to my LDS on actual content)
AOW – pre req 25 dives. 4 full specialities, dives for each of these x number, time for each x hours. Similar to master diver for PADI, only one specialization short. Are there any compulsory units, deep/nav??
Rescue – no pre req, course includes gaining knowledge of stress, signs of, dealing with, action of a stressed diver; skills including prevention of and overcoming stressors, self/buddy aid and rescue equipment. How many hours and dives/surface swims in course??

SDI:
AOW – similar to SSI, 4 full specializations, unknown course hours/dives.
Rescue – includes rescues and assists, 1st aid, self rescue, panic, DCI inj. No idea again on course hours/dives or any pre req.

IANTD:
AOW – have a course, no real info on the website on it.

YMCA:
AOW – no real info on this.
SLAM Rescue – no real info on this.

So we have tried to find out as much as possible from websites on this, haven’t searched too hard on this board, but we were wondering what others thought or could add where the websites were vague or uninformative. In the near future we will go and speak to reps from each of these agencies that run LDS’s and instruction, but in the mean time, it would help to narrow down this search if we knew more about each of these courses beyond what is written above, pre requisites, course hours/dives, and any other info to help. The list of specializations from each agency appears pretty standard, so not much need to go into those details, there are only a few variations off the common themes.

Simon

 

[simbrooks]

Forgot to mention this, but i have heard good things about the YMCA Ow course, not sure if that translates to the AOW or SLAM courses, BUT i did receive far more info from the Y manual (Graves) than from the PADI take home CD-ROM, was a lot easier to digest in book form and there were actually longer descriptions rather than just pretty pics from the CD.

Is this the format of all PADI courses? Also, with regards to the classroom/home learning, do any agencies have better resentation materials/formats than others for these types of courses?

 

[hydroslyder]

I would say find the best instructor possible, I somehow ended up having two very good instructors for my advanced course, and it was just me. Needless to say I learned a whole lot. PADI's AOW CD isnt bad not nearly as many pics and vids as the OW course, but still a few I think it had like 5-10 pages for each mini specialty. My instructors required me to do a night dive which I was grateful for, it makes you much more comfortable in less than perfect conditions. All the courses are going to be a little bit different, and by the looks of it SSI and NAUI seem to be the most in depth. As for the rescue I am still waiting to take it so theres not much I can tell you on that.

Good luck with whichever agency you choose.

 

[simbrooks]

I was going to post this on one of those threads mentioned above, but it appears that it is going to get pulled, or at least due to the content these comments arent going to be read by anyone!!

As i was returning equipment to an LDS i rented from this weekend I spoke with someone there (they offer SSI), they suggested that the only required course was Rescue, and beyond that you do 3 other specialities. However, after what Walter suggested in one of the first posts on the other thread (PADI vs SSI), i was lead to believe that you did full specialities, with multiple dives similar to the "full specialities of PADI to become a Master Diver". On speaking with these folks, they told me that they only require one or possibly two dives per speciality, hardly making it on par with the PADI 3/4 dives per full speciality. Am i missing something there, or as i wasnt speaking to an instructor, just a shop watcher who had done some courses with them, were they way off on their info for me??

I would not like to spend $140+ per speciality (4) IF i am not going to get any extra training over the single dives i would get with each of the 5 PADI ones for AOW for only $250 total. I know economics is not the end of it, but $250 compared to $560+, is a considerable difference for very similar courses under the pretense i found at the store tonight.

Very confused as to if these courses are really that different.

 

[hydroslyder]

Simbrooks, some of PADIs specialties only require 2 dives, some of the more advanced ones require 3 or four. But for PADIs advanced, you do 5 dives, each one introducing you to the five specialties, 2 being deep and navigation, and rest being of your choice, these 5 dives (PADI calls them each adventure dives) can count toward your actual specialty certifications, but you dont get 5 specialties after you have done your PADI AOW.

 

[Juls64]

I did PADI AOW right after OW. It was good in my situation because I got more bottom time, it was like a continuation of training with an instructor, and after AOW I was really comfortable diving. After that, I dove a lot with my husband, just going out on weekends, planning our own dives, practicing skills, and having alot of fun. That gave me confidence in myself.

Then, I took EFR and Rescue. That was a great experience and it gave me a lot of confidence not only in myself, but that I could help others.

Its just my experience, but I think the classes worked best for me in that order.

Good Luck and HAVE FUN!

Julie

 

[Walter]

First, you should do some local research because while one agency will have more comprehensive requirements than another, an individual instructor may teach quite a bit more than his agency requires.

With YMCA, there are 2 options for advanced. AOW and Silver Advanced. Quite frankly, YMCA's AOW is worthless. It's very similar to PADI's AOW. I refuse to teach it and I wish they would do away with it. OTOH, unless you happen to live in Los Angeles County California, YMCA's Silver Advanced is the best advanced course you're likely to find. It includes 10 dives and is heavy into academics.

The first SCUBA Rescue course was developed in 1978 with grants from the Council for National Cooperation in Aquatics and the Manned Underseas Science and Technology Program of NOAA. Representatives of both these groups contributed to the development of this course along with representatives from Canadian Royal Lifesaving Society, National YMCA Aquatic Program, American Red Cross, Newport Beach (California) Marine Department, PADI, US Army Medical Corps, Canadian Council of Underwater Clubs, Ontario Heart Foundation, Surf Lifesaving Association, Canadian Red Cross, National Forum for Advancement of Aquatics, University of Rhode Island, Association of Canadian Underwater Clubs, and Allegheny College.

This program was initiated in 1977 by Robert W. Smith, Director of the National YMCA Center for Underwater Activities. The result of the committee's work was the YMCA SLAM (SCUBA Lifesaving and Accident Management) course.

SLAM is broken down into 4 interelated and overlapping components represented by CARE: Cognizance, Assessment, Rescue and Evacuation and support proceedures.

Current standards require:
Prerequisites for SLAM are:

1. Age 15 or older
2. Completed medical questionnaire
3. Statement of understanding/Waiver
4. Advanced rating or 10 logged dives after OW certification
5. CPR

Corequisites are:

1. First Aid
2. Oxygen provider.

Required lectures:

1. Cognizance of diving accidents (victim detection)
2. Assessment of diving accidents
3. Rescue techniques
4. Evacuation and support proceedures

Required pool training:

1. 300 yd swim
2. 15 minute tred/float
3. 50 feet underwater swim
4. Extensions
5. Approaches
6. Lifesaving & Lifequard swim skills
7. Stabilization of a surface victim
8. Contact & handling of a stationary submerged victim
9. Descent arrests
10. Ascent arrests
11. OOA Emergencies
12. Retrieval & stabilization of unconscious submerged victim
13. Tows
14. Mouth to mouth rescue breathing (simulated)
15. Mouth to snorkel rescue breathing (simulated)
16. Water egress

Required open water training:

1. Detailed predive briefing
2. Rescues
3. Transporting victim and water egress
4. Evacuation

80% or better (counseled to 100%) closed book examination.

I hope this helps.

 

[simbrooks]

Thanks for the run down on the Y courses, i have two instructors in Kissimmee that are supposed to teach them if i decide to go that route - havent contacted either yet, but we shall see.

With regards to me misunderstanding other items, unfortunately the websites are very vauge. I am slowly making my way around the stores and asking about each of these things - takes time!! My comments on the opening post were to say that mini-specializations are just one dive from the "full" specialization - initially i was led to believe that PADI and NAUI offer only mini specializations (1 out of 2-4 dives for the actual full course) whereas the SSI and SDI so i have heard offer full specializations (still have to double check on what i heard from SSI LDS).

What does the Silver Advanced course from the Y offer over other courses by other agencies?

Still dont know if anyone knows/experienced/teaches the IANTD/SDI courses or can confirm of deny what i wrote earlier about SSI AOW, any thoughts???

Thanks so far for the info, we know that we want to do these courses, but like i said, a little research - this being one resource, and more thought is required to choose what would be the most beneficial for diving - in terms of skills, dives to practice new skills, education and also they have to be weighed up slightly for cost!

 

[Walter]

Anything in blue is not an agency requirement, but a requirement for the course as I've structured it.

YMCA Silver Advanced

Required lectures:
Underwater Navigation
Night and Limited Visibility
Deep Diving
Boating Safety
Dive Environment

Additional lectures I include:

Search and Recovery
Physics
Physiology
Diver Preparedness
Dive Planning and Techniques
Altitude

Students must be CPR certified to complete the course.

Required dives:

Navigation
Search and Recovery
Night or limited visibility (I, personally, require both)
Deep (4 are required)

A total of 10 training dives are required.

NAUI Advanced SCUBA Diver

Required dives:

Navigation
Night or low visibility
Deep
3 others from a list

A total of 6 training dives are required.

Briefings are required prior to the dives.

YMCA AOW

Required dives:

Navigation
Night
Deep
2 others from a list

A total of 5 training dives are required.

Briefings are required prior to the dives.

PADI AOW

Required dives:

Deep
Underwater Navigation
3 others from a list

A total of 5 training dives are required.

Students are required to complete “knowledge reviews” for the appropriate dive before they can receive credit toward certification for the dive. The “knowledge review” is not required to be completed prior to the dive.

 

[simbrooks]

Thanks again Walter for your info, i am not sure if the two Y instructors that are listed in my area would cover all those extras that you have put into your course (why dont i live in a place with instructors who go the extra mile???), but i will be sure to ask!

As for the other agencies, i am still lacking confirmation about SSI, SDI and IANTD. Are there any other instructors or recent grads of these courses out there?? I think that if they are what i thought they might be that the SSI or SDI will be vying for position with the Y course, if it were taught as Walter has prescribed, but i have no idea about the IANTD course that is supposed to be available. I have written off emails to LDS's who offer the SSI and SDI courses, no response yet, nor at this time do i have too much time to go and visit these shops again - at least not before the weekend!

Will keep looking.