Anyone else order the GoPro 10?

[Manatee Diver]

I think whether this correction is done by the computer in the camera or in editing software the result is the same and you can dispense with the filter.

You are wrong, the results are very different. The sensors on these cameras often have up to a 16 bit color range that they can detect. But the file that it writes can only contain an 8 bit color range. The white balance setting, be it set manually, automatically, or automatically with a filter pushing it one way; centers the color range recorded to the file. So you have more of the colors you want in your recorded file, so you have less detail loss when you make your final adjustments.

Here is an example of the limited color range. The water was extremely green, and I wasn't expecting that so I didn't have the filter. I adjusted the colors as best as I could without losing too much quality, but you can see on the turtle's head where the colors are blown out because I ran color range to work with.

Now this isn't as big of a concern for still photographers, because raw shooting modes are common on photo cameras, in fact even the GoPro and some phones support a raw files. In fact it helps not just with color but exposure. I took some photos for my business and the woman was in more of a shadow than I wanted. I used a selection tool to pull her out into her own layer, and just made a small adjustment to brighten her up, and exported the file. When i was shooting JPG or slides I could never do that, I simply didn't have the available dynamic range.

But I highly doubt that we will ever see raw video on GoPro, the microsd cards simply don't have the write speeds. We might see HDR (10bit color) for 4K with the 11 or 12, but I don't know about anyone else, I would want to export HDR files too, so I am going to still have to worry about the recorded colors

 

[BlueTrin]

Out of curiosity how does an Olympus TG6 compares to a GoPro for videos?

 

[ReefHound]

So my conclusion is, if you go through the trouble of doing white balance correction in the editing software you should not use the red filter.

If you don't correct with software then yes you get better results with the filter.

One issue I'm still working on is that the software corrects the colors so well that at times it no longer looks like an underwater shot, so I want to find a way to not fully correct the white balance to get a more natural water look.

I agree with this. In addition to introducing distortions, the filter will reduce the amount of light reaching the sensor. Light cannot be replaced in any post processing. If you're going to post process and color correct, you might as well do it on raw unfiltered video. That's why serious photographers shoot in RAW mode.

Most people I know that use red filters are trying to get the best they can out of the camera and not post process. Correcting in post can be a time killer as the correction needed varies based on depth and light conditions. I'm not sure how their auto WB works but it would be nice to be able to adjust WB on the camera manually.

 

[ReefHound]

I have no problems with go pro 9 files, it is the 10 files that are a problem

What resolution and framerate are you shooting?

 

[ReefHound]

Btw, are you guys setting color to Gopro or Flat?

 

[Manatee Diver]

If you're going to post process and color correct, you might as well do it on raw unfiltered video. That's why serious photographers shoot in RAW mode.

You are comparing two different things. Raw photos have a much higher range than you can render into a standard image, in the color range we are typically talking about 12 or 16bit color range. The GoPro file is an 8bit file, once you render that file, all the extra range that the sensor is able to detect is gone.

Which is why, if the auto white balance isn't enough, you want to use a filter to get closer to that range. If you are at a depth where attaching a filter will result in the ISO getting too high, you should probably be considering lights as the lighter isn't the right tool for the job.

I find it funny that GoPro photographers tell me filters are all these negative things, when they've been a standard tool for photographers for many many years. I have a whole stack of them, polarizing filters, neutral density filters, graduated neutral density filters, and even some specialized stuff like star filters (great for Christmas photos). Some are being displaced by technology, but many remain a mainstay in modern camera bags. So if your filter is adding distortion and other issues you need to buy better filters.

Now if we were actually working with raw video files you would have a bitter argument, and I've acknowledged that. Or if we could set white balance or even just an underwater white balance mode where you know that it should compensate for blue or green casts. Then yes filters would largely be irrelevant just like they are fairly uncommon on still cameras or higher end video cameras.

 

[Hatul]

That's the problem.

The file you copy off your sd card is the highest quality your video will ever be. Any adjustments, even if they improve the presentation of the video, will result in a lower quality video. The GoPro isn't a high end camera it records 8 bit colors with a limited dynamic range, as such any adjustments of exposure or colors lowers the quality as there is no spare range to work with like you get with 10, 12, or even 16 bit colors that higher end cameras can output.

So for the best quality you should get your exposure and colors are close to your desired output exposure and colors as you can. That might mean no filter, might mean a filter, or lights.

Which was the nature of that test video, to see how the GoPro auto white balance works, and if a filter improves it. So I know when the GoPro 10 requires a filter and when it doesn't. Now if we could set the white balance it would all be pointless.

I follow your argument which is theoretical. Another theoretical argument is that putting a piece of colored plastic in front of you lens decrease the amount of light hitting the sensor which increases the amount of light noise, and is another source of distortion as no piece of plastic is optically perfect, especially after being scratched.

Setting aside these theoretical arguments the ultimate question is which gets the better video. Your filtered clip is better than without filter, but I assume you don't correct for white balance in software. So I agree that if you don't want to mess around with post processing the filter gives better results.

So we can try 3 different settings: 1 with filter and no post processing, 2 with filter with post processing, and 3 no filter with post processing. Of the three, I think 3 gets the best results at least with GoPro 9.

I'm going to attach a video of a dive here in Laguna Beach, the first part of the video is with a magenta filter (for green water) with no post processing, and the second part is with the filter flipped out but with post processing. I use a small video light with both. I think the second part without the filter is slightly better.


I should add that perhaps the issue is that I'm using a video light, and the red filter and video light throws the color balance way off for the near objects and saturates the red. The guys who get good results with red filter don't use video lights and don't do post porcessing.

 

[Hatul]

Btw, are you guys setting color to Gopro or Flat?

For underwater the GoPro color looks better IMO. On the surface I use flat.

 

[Manatee Diver]

I follow your argument which is theoretical. Another theoretical argument is that putting a piece of colored plastic in front of you lens decrease the amount of light hitting the sensor which increases the amount of light noise, and is another source of distortion as no piece of plastic is optically perfect, especially after being scratched.

It isn't theoretical it is fact. Yes a filter does have some trade offs, but I already dealt with the light argument above.

And if it poor quality replace it, and buy from a reputable supplier with higher QC. It is gets scratched you replace it with a new one.

Setting aside these theoretical arguments the ultimate question is which gets the better video. Your filtered clip is better than without filter, but I assume you don't correct for white balance in software. So I agree that if you don't want to mess around with post processing the filter gives better results.

The whole purpose of the clip was to test to see how close to natural colors you can get filtered vs unfiltered. I still do post-production color grading even on filtered footage, the difference is that it should require much smaller corrections than if I had captured the footage without a filter. At least if I am doing my job right and use the filter when it needs it vs when it doesn't.

I should add that perhaps the issue is that I'm using a video light, and the red filter and video light throws the color balance way off for the near objects and saturates the red. The guys who get good results with red filter don't use video lights and don't do post porcessing

Well there is your problem. If you are using a red filter in front of your camera, you can't use lights unless they have an ambient filter on your lights.

Keldan explains that idea here:

 

[johndiver999]

What resolution and framerate are you shooting?

1080 only