Anti-Fogging Treatments for New Masks. (a comparison of techniques)

[lowviz]

@tridacna, I'm right there with you on removable lenses! C'mon manufacturers, run the bare lenses through in batches!!

However, non-removable (frameless) lenses present a problem. Either the manufacturer or consumer has to deal with the entire mask while attempting to season the lenses.

The frameless lens is placed into a small carrier and the seal is made along a very narrow strip on both the inside and outside of the lens:



The edge is not involved:



Still wrenching on how to 'season' this type of mask as frameless masks are typically smaller and lower volume. I prefer them...

 

[tridacna]

@tridacna, I'm right there with you on removable lenses! C'mon manufacturers, run the bare lenses through in batches!!

However, non-removable (frameless) lenses present a problem. Either the manufacturer or consumer has to deal with the entire mask while attempting to season the lenses.

The frameless lens is placed into a small carrier and the seal is made along a very narrow strip on both the inside and outside of the lens:

View attachment 688989

The edge is not involved:

View attachment 688990

Still wrenching on how to 'season' this type of mask as frameless masks are typically smaller and lower volume. I prefer them...

Can you think of any other product that does not work out of the box and requires such a lot of effort? Seasoning a pan perhaps?

 

[VikingDives]

Can you think of any other product that does not work out of the box and requires such a lot of effort? Seasoning a pan perhaps?

Harley Davidsons in the 70s and 80s...

 

[Hoyden]

I have purchased the recommended supplies to make the ammonia paste. Now I just need some of my staff to need new masks so I can try it. The liquid ammonia soak works, but the paste seems even easier and less subject to accidentally getting on hard plastic. Our staff divers are appreciative of the improved process.

 

[lowviz]

I'm looking for a recipe. A recipe that I will not end up finding out after the fact that produced a different result than yours because I did something slightly different. Used a different toothpaste that had some different ingredient that "maybe" made the difference. Etc..

Your valid concern got me to examine the ingredients more closely. That toothpaste uses sodium percarbonate. It is a peroxide like substance. Thus my next trial used Ammonium Bicarbonate, PEG-3350, and hydrogen peroxide solution instead of water. It forms a messy slurry, I'll try adding toothpaste to firm it up if this works. One day along, the results are interesting. The lenses are acting differently:



I will post the fogging results in about 4 days...

 

[lowviz]

I have purchased the recommended supplies to make the ammonia paste. Now I just need some of my staff to need new masks so I can try it. The liquid ammonia soak works, but the paste seems even easier and less subject to accidentally getting on hard plastic. Our staff divers are appreciative of the improved process.

The ammonium bicarbonate works well on most lenses but will not reform a 'mask or lens from Hell'. Nothing that I can find will beat a long soak in plain old household ammonia solution right out of the bottle.

Your valid concern got me to examine the ingredients more closely. That toothpaste uses sodium percarbonate. It is a peroxide like substance. Thus my next trial used Ammonium Bicarbonate, PEG-3350, and hydrogen peroxide solution instead of water. It forms a messy slurry, I'll try adding toothpaste to firm it up if this works. One day along, the results are interesting. The lenses are acting differently:

View attachment 689313

I will post the fogging results in about 4 days...

The bubbles on the left lens (viewed from the inside) turned out to be nothing more than ammonia gas that did not tame the left lens from Hell (LLFH). *sigh*

Here is the bottom line on a mask that contains one 'lens from Hell' and one friendly lens:

Note the lens on top that soaked in ammonia for two weeks in a closed container. Everything is fresh out of the refrigerator and fogged with two 'standard' exhales. No defog of any sort was used.

My next test will be an attempt to tame the LLFH with an ammonia soak as a final verification of that particular method.

Stay tuned...

 

[eelnoraa]

I used the standard white toothpaste method for a Cressi bought 5+ years ago but had to turn to the tried and true flame for my recently purchase Atomic Venom. Next time I will go with the flame only. The flame method is readily available on youtube. For example .

I think this is the step to remove oil residual from manufacturer only. And after that, the normal defog method is still needed, otherwise mask will still fog up after a few dives when the lense is again “contaminated”, such as you put sun screen/lotion on you face ... the real goal is to have something on the lense that break the water surface tension, so small water “ball”s don’t form on lense.

In my experience, many methods has work: sea gold is great. Johnson baby shampoo is also great. Toothpaste is good except it can irritate eyes a little.

 

[lowviz]

@Hoyden (I love that handle)

Use household ammonia (rather than water) to make the cream...

 

[coralcruiser]

It's been discussed quite a bit in this thread. Putting the mask through a cycle in the dishwasher (with dishwasher detergent) works REALLY well. I mention it because I suspect it might get the glass similarly clean to Bon Ami, but also have the added benefit of removing contaminants (like silicone mold release chemicals) from the mask skirt. The concern is that stuff on the mask skirt could leach onto the glass over time. So, what was perfectly clean after Bon Ami eventually becomes "not clean" anymore and you would need to clean it with Bon Ami (or something) again to restore it's fog resistance.

Have you had any issues with the silicone melting or degrading from putting it in the dishwasher? Even though I never use the heat dry function and always open it to air dry as soon as the finished washing light comes on, the stuff I out in the dishwasher are extremely hot when the wash is over.
Finally had to replace my 14 year old mask and need to get the new one prepped for a trip.

 

[-JD-]

I am not sure of the relative densities and miscibility nor happen to have any household ammonia handy to test this, but could vegetable oil be used as a barrier to evaporation? Pour in a thin layer of the ammonia, then carefully, some oil and let it sit ... no exposure of the plastics.

[snip]
I understand that approach, but it seems too messy to become popular. Wikipedia ammonium bicarbonate. My current focus is to add crystals of ammonium bicarbonate to gel toothpaste. This would be done directly on the lens surface. The toothpaste will enhance decomposition of the ammonium salt into low levels of ammonia while keeping the active compound where it is needed. (so the 'theory' goes...)

But wait, ammonia and oil is just so much easier since they are grocery store items, and the last step is the dishwasher so cleanup won't be too bad.
Since I'm going to Giant today, I'll give it a try anyway ...

OK, WTH! They don't have ammonia?!

Sorry (N-S) for the self quotes but I figured that it would better set the stage.

I found out that Randy at Piranha is now carrying the ProMate equivalent of my Tilos mask (best found fit fore my weird face) and ordered one so I had a backup for my BlackBeard's trip. I also figured it was the perfect opportunity to try out my oil-over ammonia concept ...

First I confirmed that the oil was indeed less-dense than the ammonia:

Then I ran both masks through the dishwasher. My 3 year old Tilos (Black) has been scrubbed and through the DW, probably 5 times. The new Grey one just out of the box through the DW once. Then into the fridge for an hour and over a boiling pot of water:

Old:

New:

Next I put the new mask into an old take-out container, inverted the nose pocket and shimmed it with some paper towels to hold it in-place and level. I added enough ammonia to ensure full coverage over the lens and then carefully added the oil:

After waving off the residual from before the oil was added there was no ammonia smell.
6 Days sitting in box. When I removed the cover still no smell. There was a milky layer where there seemed to be some mixing.

Poured off the liquid and rinsed the new Grey mask. Popped both into the DW for another run, fridge for an hour +, then back over some boiling water:

Old:

New (treated):

On the trip, I used the new Grey mask exclusively. Either one drop of Johnson's Baby - or spray of diluted - then rinsed. No fogging whatsoever and I do a good amount of partial mask clearing due to leakage but water was warm (upper 70s).

Tentatively, the ammonia soak seems to work (I'd need to try it in cold-water for a better test).
The oil over ammonia as a barrier also seems to work a treat if you don't want to assemble the ingredients for @lowviz 's paste recipe.

Looks Like I will be trying it again and ordering another from Randy - The DM on the boat commented that the mask was a long-lost favorite of his and I left it in his care at the end of the trip.