Anti-Fogging Treatments for New Masks. (a comparison of techniques)

[Pearlman]

FYI There is an old thread on sea drops n gold comparison here : sea drop v. sea gold v. 500 psi test with results

 

[bletso]

And here I have been doing all wrong for 30 yrs; good old fashioned spit/rinse/dive.

80 degree water or 35 degree, 20 min dive or two hours, shallow , deep or cave seldom a problem.

 

[stuartv]

And here I have been doing all wrong for 30 yrs; good old fashioned spit/rinse/dive.

80 degree water or 35 degree, 20 min dive or two hours, shallow , deep or cave seldom a problem.

Really? Brand new mask and no scrubbing? No toothpaste? No burning? Just spit, rinse, and dive?

This thread is really about the prep of a new mask. Specifically, what works even on the MOST fog-prone mask you can find.

I got a brand new mask 2 weeks ago. I did no scrubbing. No toothpaste. No burning. I ran it through the dishwasher, then soaked it for a week in ammonia. I put some diluted baby shampoo in it and rinsed it quickly, then dived for an hour in 52 degree water. When I got out, I breathed on the inside of the mask 3 times, TRYING to get it to fog - and it wouldn't fog.

Does spit/rinse/dive work as well as that?

 

[bletso]

Don't really know. My mask must be 20 yrs old with prescription lenses. We used to just use toothpaste to prep a mask. No special procedures. Sometimes the old ways just work and are definitely less expensive. You really would soak a mask in ammonia for a week? Sounds a little bezarre when 5 mins with the paste works just fine. Perhaps pressure should be put on the manufacturers to produce masks which don't need such procedures.

 

[Daebado]

....We used to just use toothpaste to prep a mask. No special procedures. ....

I would argue that using toothpaste qualifies as a special procedure.

 

[stuartv]

Don't really know. My mask must be 20 yrs old with prescription lenses. We used to just use toothpaste to prep a mask. No special procedures. Sometimes the old ways just work and are definitely less expensive. You really would soak a mask in ammonia for a week? Sounds a little bezarre when 5 mins with the paste works just fine. Perhaps pressure should be put on the manufacturers to produce masks which don't need such procedures.

You don't think scrubbing with toothpaste - and not just any toothpaste, but plain, white, gritty toothpaste - qualifies as a "special procedure"?

Regardless, if you had read this whole thread, you might have learned that scrubbing with toothpaste does not work just fine on all masks. Numerous people, including myself, have encountered at least one mask where that does not do it.

I happen to use the same mask lowviz was using for his testing. A Mako Minimus. I scrubbed it with toothpaste. And with Dawn dish soap. And burned it. And scrubbed it with a Magic Eraser. It still wanted to fog way too much.

Now that I've done the dishwasher and ammonia soak on it, it seems to be pretty much fogproof. But, I've only done a single 1 hour dive with it, so the jury is still out. Just the dishwasher made it a LOT better. Easily good enough that I didn't feel a need to do anything more. But, I wanted to see if the ammonia did make it better in a noticeable way, so I did the soak anyway.

And yes, I put 5 of my masks in ammonia to soak last night. They will stay in there until next Sunday. I already have 2 masks that are all done with their soaks, so I can dive them next weekend if needed.

 

[lowviz]

I keep trying to answer all contributors in this thread and, in doing so, I find that I need to find more literature justifications.
These two stragglers just in, with any luck, they will be the last:

Etching Borosilicate Glass With Ammonium Hydroxide ($ fee for full download)
Abstract

Borosilicate glass, formed on silicon wafers in diffusion processes, is removed by an aqueous solution of ammonium hydroxide or ammonium hydroxide and hydrogen peroxide. With the conditions properly adjusted, the borosilicate is etched at a high rate, while the silicon dioxide is only negligibly attacked.

And:

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ust_by_ammonium_hydroxide_hydrothermal_method

I think that I now have the minimum (and best) set of articles that I need to work my way through the previous posts. Patience, please...

 

[bletso]

And yes, I put 5 of my masks in ammonia to soak last night. They will stay in there until next Sunday. I already have 2 masks that are all done with their soaks, so I can dive them next weekend if needed.

Really, 5 masks? Never have needed more than one though I admit to having to look for it from time to time.

BTW, I concede that the toothpaste treatment is indeed a treatment. Never noticed any difference in the brand though.
Perhaps there are different gimmicks by manufacturers to make the best mask, but in the end they haven't seemed to succeed.

 

[lowviz]

Headed down another rabbit-hole...

https://www.researchgate.net/public...ust_by_ammonium_hydroxide_hydrothermal_method

"In short, ammonium hydroxide hydrothermal process is good for antireflection of a glass surface due to formation of nanostructured porosity layer on the surface of glass.

Results show that the thickness of nanostructure layer increases with prolonging the treatment time. In fact, the effect of treatment temperature on layer thickness is similar to that of time.

4. CONCLUSION A simple approach to prepare nanostructured porous layer of glass was reported in this paper using ammonium hydroxide solution hydrothermal process. We found that the nanostructured layer in glass surface demonstrated super-hydrophilicity and antireflection."


So, our ammonia soak may not just be hydroxylating the surface but also nanostructuring it. Most interesting!

 

[stuartv]

Really, 5 masks? Never have needed more than one though I admit to having to look for it from time to time.

I have 12 or 15. I am not afraid to out myself for stupidity and/or ignorance. So, I'll share.

I have been diving for a bit over 5 years, total. 350 dives.Through all that, I have never found a mask that doesn't leak on me. The Mako Minimus mask has been the best of the ones I have tried. But, over the last 2 or 3 years, I have been buying a mask here or there trying new stuff, to see if I could find something more reliable. I had stuck with buying inexpensive masks, like ones from Dive Gear Express. This last year, I was lucky enough to make a connection that allowed me to buy Atomic and Hollis masks at very good prices, so I kind of went hog wild buying a number of high end masks to try. I currently have masks from Seavision, Atomic, Hollis, Dive Rite, Mako Spearguns, Dive Gear Express, and Deep6 Gear. Multiple models from most of those.

I figured I could sell twice-used masks that didn't work for me and not lose too much money. To my disappointment, still nothing was truly leak-free for me.

Now comes the part where I out myself for stupidity or ignorance.

I grew up in north Florida, living on a river that flowed out in the Gulf. I have been snorkeling all my life. I have ALWAYS put on my mask by, well, putting it on, and then pressing on it a bit to "burp" it. This makes a little bit of a vacuum behind it, making it feel like it is really sealed well against my face. When I cleared my mask of water, while in the water, I would hold the top, exhale, and then, as the final step, burp the mask against my face again. This way of doing things continued right through into my scuba diving.

This past February, I went to dive off Utila for a week. Mask leaks continued throughout... until, one day, for some reason, I thought to myself that I should try clearing my mask the way we teach it in open water class. I.e. just hold the top of the mask and exhale. No push at the end to burp the mask. Lo, and behold! My mask leaking immediately dropped to almost zero! After one day of that, I was verbally kicking myself out loud for taking this long to figure that out. I mean... what an idiot! In hindsight, it seems so obvious. If you burp the mask to create a little bit of vacuum behind it, of course it's going to be trying to suck water in. Duh.

So, now I am going through the long process of re-trying all these masks I have, to figure out which 2 or 3 I like the best. Once I make some decisions there, I can let the rest of this inventory go to new, loving homes. Should I charge extra for masks that come pre-hydroxylated for your fog-free viewing pleasure? LOL