Another Shearwater question.

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I disagree, really a Peregrine is capable of doing what a Perdix does and just limited for market segment reasons. They could do a CCR and trimix one in days, it would require a build and some testing. AI would, I guess, require extra hardware. They might have an issue there with taking sales from their higher priced units, while those still sell well I would not expect AI at a much lower price point. Someone will be having a good play with a spreadsheet I think.

Right, but they already make a Peregrine... so are you saying that it would make sense for them to take the Perdix and convert it to sealed, internal battery? Software upgrades are cheap, hardware upgrades are not, and segmenting the market means that they would be competing against themselves. Unless you think that there are a lot of tech divers who have a big problem with the user replaceable battery?
 
I just had a Petrel2 serviced (died due to a leak from a crack in the plexiglass screen cover) and it came back with a Tip Sheet about avoiding failures.

The two most common causes of failures:
1) Leaking alkiline AA battery cells left idle for too long
2) Battery cap not fully screwed down causing a leak

The sealed rechargeable design may have some benefits in a tech model SW, perhaps with a bigger capacity for extended service.
 
So the Nerd went from a replaceable battery to a sealed rechargeable. Shearwater sent out a sheet saying the two most common failures they get are the result of the replaceable battery. Their newest computer is a very similar form factor to the perdix with a sealed rechargeable battery. I don’t think it’s a stretch to think the writing is on the wall for where things are headed. Shearwater can eliminate the two most common failure points, and add a revenue stream every few years for their service centers. I don’t think this will cannibalize their line at all, a perdix 2 or perdix 2 AI will simply replace what is offered now, and with the peregrine likely no re tooling needed with the excepted some screen printing of Model names.
 
So the Nerd went from a replaceable battery to a sealed rechargeable. Shearwater sent out a sheet saying the two most common failures they get are the result of the replaceable battery. Their newest computer is a very similar form factor to the perdix with a sealed rechargeable battery. I don’t think it’s a stretch to think the writing is on the wall for where things are headed. Shearwater can eliminate the two most common failure points, and add a revenue stream every few years for their service centers. I don’t think this will cannibalize their line at all, a perdix 2 or perdix 2 AI will simply replace what is offered now, and with the peregrine likely no re tooling needed with the excepted some screen printing of Model names.

Yeah, maybe the petrel is destined to go the way of the NERD 1, where there won't be an option for a replaceable battery. For me, I like having the option. I guess it comes down to what the actual incidence of failure at that point is, not the percentage of repairs that involve it.
 
so are you saying that it would make sense for them to take the Perdix and convert it to sealed, internal battery?

They did that, it is called a Peregrine. What they have not done is decide to stop selling the Perdix/Perdix AI yet. They will carry on doing that while it makes money. If they want they could drop it but they need to take care that they don’t end up taking less money. I guess the Perdix case costs them more but I also guess that the margins cover that and then some. I don’t mind the AA battery at all, indeed I probably prefer it, but if there was a Peregrine CCR that cost half what a Perdix does I think I could put up with the charging rigmarole. Give it a couple more years and it will be like the old “must not have a compass or AI” arguments.

In my opinion it is all about cannibalising the existing product. Do they currently lose sales of Perdix AI to cheaper competitors? Would a Peregrine AI take sales from it or from the competition? I would not be inclined to recommend a Perdix AI to anyone who I don’t expect to do trimix as it is unreasonably expensive, but a Peregrine is much better value as would be a Peregrine AI. A Peregrine AI with lock codes for CCR and trimix would be very popular but would it make them more money?
 
I don’t mind the AA battery at all, indeed I probably prefer it, but if there was a Peregrine CCR that cost half what a Perdix does I think I could put up with the charging rigmarole.

Right, that's my point.

I think that you are looking at progressively narrower and narrower markets. Half of a Perdix just doesn't seem like much of a price inducement for a rebreather diver, if you are talking about something that you don't like as much. Given the overall cost of CCR, if I had the option of a DC / Controller that I liked better, I wouldn't accept that tradeoff.

The bigger issue is that they probably can repurpose a lot of the internals across their line if they standardize. If everything uses sealed rechargeables, then they don't have to maintain whatever part of their factory deals with AA batter chambers, etc...

I hope that doesn't happen.
 
Yeah, maybe the petrel is destined to go the way of the NERD 1, where there won't be an option for a replaceable battery. For me, I like having the option. I guess it comes down to what the actual incidence of failure at that point is, not the percentage of repairs that involve it.
What is the incidence rate of battery leaks or flooding because of improper compartment closures in the teric, nerd 2, or peregrine ? It’s 0 so those same failures in the perdix are infinitely more and easily avoidable. It also brings consistency in the product line
 
What is the incidence rate of battery leaks or flooding because of improper compartment closures in the teric, nerd 2, or peregrine ? It’s 0 so those same failures in the perdix are infinitely more and easily avoidable. It also brings consistency in the product line

C'mon, you can't do any risk analysis like that. Are you saying that because you can have a flood, no one should ever use a DC with a user replaceable battery? They are "easily avoidable" if you are willing to accept the tradeoff of not being able to replace your battery on the fly.

What's the incidence of death from drowning if you never go in the water? It's infinitely higher if you go diving...
 
C'mon, you can't do any risk analysis like that. Are you saying that because you can have a flood, no one should ever use a DC with a user replaceable battery? They are "easily avoidable" if you are willing to accept the tradeoff of not being able to replace your battery on the fly.

What's the incidence of death from drowning if you never go in the water? It's infinitely higher if you go diving...

likewise you can’t choose to ignore the two most common modes of failures as stated by the manufacture. This is a circular argument. I’m not sure where the Nerd 2 release falls in the product line but the last 2 computers and possible 3 that they have released have eliminated this risk. It would certainly have been cheaper and easier to have released the Peregrine in the perdix case with a replaceable battery. Consumer electronics are moving to internal rechargeable batteries. This was not intended to be a poll of what are personal preferences but rather a question on how often they release new products. Fortunately for us all there are many options to satisfy us all and while we may have differing opinions on what’s best for us we share the bigger love of diving.
 
likewise you can’t choose to ignore the two most common modes of failures as stated by the manufacture. This is a circular argument. I’m not sure where the Nerd 2 release falls in the product line but the last 2 computers and possible 3 that they have released have eliminated this risk. It would certainly have been cheaper and easier to have released the Peregrine in the perdix case with a replaceable battery. Consumer electronics are moving to internal rechargeable batteries. This was not intended to be a poll of what are personal preferences but rather a question on how often they release new products. Fortunately for us all there are many options to satisfy us all and while we may have differing opinions on what’s best for us we share the bigger love of diving.

I'm not ignoring it, I'm saying that it's a tradeoff. Maybe I misread your post, but you seemed to imply that a non-zero failure rate of the battery compartment is the only thing to be considered in that design decision. I'm saying that I happily accept that, and do my part to avoid that, in return for a feature that I prefer (user replaceable battery).

And like I always say, it's a social forum, not a deposition. Some drift is always going to happen, especially since the original question is not something that can be accurately answered unless you work for @Shearwater . Maybe they will chime in.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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