Another new guy asking about cameras

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I guess the real question is. Will the standard stock flash on the G12 give me enough light to take a decent pic in Caribbean water?

That depends on what you are shooting. You'll never light up a tiger shark at Tiger Beach, Bahamas, but it would be fine for macro work. Even powerful strobes lose integrity underwater with subject much past 5' away. I try to wait to fire mine until I get a subject less than 3' away. Keep in mind that the on-board flash on the G12 creates a shadow of the lens port across the viewing plane, so you really need the diffuser in place.
 
The internal flash, if configured properly and under the proper shooting conditions would be fine.

If you are shooting close-up, like less than 1-2 ft, then the flash should do OK, if the water is not too silted up. For things a little more distant, you have to play around with shutter speed & ISO to minimize ambient light and maximize the light from the flash. This comes from knowledge of how photography and camera works.

Anything farther, you will have to either use a preset UW mode if the camera has it, or do some manual white balance, save it in white balance memory and switch to it when not using a strobe.

The G12 has a min focal length of 28mm, which becomes something like 40mm or so, which is not so wide anymore. Maybe you should find a camera with a 24mm lens, which is wider and allows you to get closer to a relatively large subject while still having the whole subject in the frame.
 
The internal flash, if configured properly and under the proper shooting conditions would be fine.

If you are shooting close-up, like less than 1-2 ft, then the flash should do OK, if the water is not too silted up. For things a little more distant, you have to play around with shutter speed & ISO to minimize ambient light and maximize the light from the flash. This comes from knowledge of how photography and camera works.

Anything farther, you will have to either use a preset UW mode if the camera has it, or do some manual white balance, save it in white balance memory and switch to it when not using a strobe.

The G12 has a min focal length of 28mm, which becomes something like 40mm or so, which is not so wide anymore. Maybe you should find a camera with a 24mm lens, which is wider and allows you to get closer to a relatively large subject while still having the whole subject in the frame.

In regards to the focal length. Would that be resolved by a wide angle dome lens? If I understand them right the reason a wide lens is used underwater is when your shooting something large like a diver if you didn't have a wide lens you would be to far from the subject to light it up with your strobe. Seeing as you would need to be more than 3' from the subject you are photographing.

So earlier in the thread I posted a package set up but was told to look at reviews of the lens that they bundled with it. It was a Fisheye FIX Wide Air Lens. I can't find anything negative about it unless there is some review board I am not seeing or a page that I missed. I understand it as it needs to be put on in the air before you go down. People have said there is really no vignetting and if there is the hint of it a slight zoom in will fix it giving plenty of wide angle shot. No tools to put it on and off when changing the ports either.
 
Would this be a decent set up for the Canon G12?

Canon G12 Camera, Canon WP-DC34 Housing, Wide Lens & Sea & Sea Strobe Package

Its a little more than what I wanted to spend but that happens.

Buy the G11 at $250 - dhass sells good stuff: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/cl...non-wp-dc34-canon-g11-g12-housing-weight.html

Buy the canon WP-DC34 housing for ~$180, shipped. Amazon is good for it.

Super setup. Add strobes as you feel like it. Ultralight arms/tray rock. Insure with DAN.
 
In regards to the focal length. Would that be resolved by a wide angle dome lens? If I understand them right the reason a wide lens is used underwater is when your shooting something large like a diver if you didn't have a wide lens you would be to far from the subject to light it up with your strobe. Seeing as you would need to be more than 3' from the subject you are photographing.

So earlier in the thread I posted a package set up but was told to look at reviews of the lens that they bundled with it. It was a Fisheye FIX Wide Air Lens. I can't find anything negative about it unless there is some review board I am not seeing or a page that I missed. I understand it as it needs to be put on in the air before you go down. People have said there is really no vignetting and if there is the hint of it a slight zoom in will fix it giving plenty of wide angle shot. No tools to put it on and off when changing the ports either.

A dome lens nulls out the magnification factor of the water, thus returning the lens back to its 28mm equiv focal length. A wet lens with a front front is like a wide angle adapter lens. It usually has a wider view than a dome lens, but usually resulting in alot of barrel distortion.

Using a wide lens is not just for subjects 5 ft wide, it is also for subjects a foot wide, where you can get up to 1 ft from the subject instead of 2 ft.


So with a dome lens, your internal strobe becomes unusable, so you will have to have a external strobe. But if you have a camera with 24mm lens, underwater, it would be around 32mm, which would be around the G12 w/FIX lens, slightly zoomed in. But you still can use the internal flash...which are more appropriate for the snapshot divers, which you might or might not be.
 
the dc1400 is definitely the way to go i have a dc1200 and havent had a problem with it at all
 
So what did you end up doing. I was going through the same delima the last few weeks. I opted to go with a camera I could grow with as I learn more about taking pics under water. I was looking at the same sealife dc1400 package as you. I ended up going with the Canon S100 with the Ikelite housing. I got it from B&H for $719. I will add strobes later. I think I will be better served having a better camera and focusing on using it underwater before I add the complexity of strobes or other lights.
 
Hi 40xb - I have been diving for 36 years and have been taking photos for the past 5 years only with a P&S everything you read will be good and bad regardless of how good the camera is. The best rule I was told when I was so disappointed with the camera I was told would blow my socks from a company that only sold underwater equipment. Learn to use the equipment you have and find out what is the best way to take a photo with it. That statement changed what I thought I could do with a camera. The camera was a Fuji F50fd recently flooded - I used a 165mm Inon macro lens with it and I managed to take some great shots. I now have the DC1400, which I have only managed to use 4 times because of a problem with the shutter button. As far as cost goes I think the DC1400 Pro Duo is possibly the best buy in the market place. My other choice would have been the Canon G12, but by the time you set it up with strobes and lenses it is very expensive especially if you are a part time diver. I dive every weekend I do around 80 dives a year and my photography knowledge is very sad when I read the info my eyes glaze over and I just struggle with all the settings, but practice helps. Attached is a link to my Flickr site the last few photos are from my Dc1400 - before I sent the housing away. The shots are great but they did start to improve once I learnt to adjust the strobe which is fully manual and or auto but does need the Diffuser and I will be purchasing the video light Flickr: billunder's Photostream
Good luck with your choice and start diving more

Cheers

Fantastic photos! Thanks for sharing!
 
Many have made some good points.

Mainly, you need a camera with full manual controls. It is pretty important to always shoot in RAW mode (many reasons), so obviously you'll need a camera that does that.

Forget the internal flash idea - totally bad idea. If you want to shoot macro, you'll need to point the "cone" of the flashes inward (almost back toward the lens). Two flashes are better than one.

Forget shooting "distance" shots with a flash. Not happening without backscatter. Most of your stuff will be less than 5 feet in total distance. I use twin Ikelite DS160's, and they're both beasts (great for clearwater cave shots).

On the camera, if you're stuck with a fixed mount P&S, get one with good glass. No amount of flash is going to make up for a cheap lens. I still have a G-9 in Ikelite housing with twin DS51's on it (might be for sale...:D ) that I let my photo students shoot with, and it takes geat pix.

If you want to get into macro, there are "wet" lenses you can use (goes over the housing port, and is installed in the water), that aren't horrendously expensive, that can be added later.

Since you are budget restricted, and can't get an SLR, stick with the higher end point and shoots by Nikon and Canon (Canon has a better sensor setup, IMHO). You can either get full control function housings (meaning you can adjust/change everything underwater), or the simple mafr's housings (not as good, but budget conscious).

You can pick up decent used equipment. On the housings, make sure you get one you can get parts for (you'll probably be looking at Ikelite for this), and that can be serviced (the push buttons do need rebuilding, just like your regulator).

Check the boards here for used gear. Well cared for gear brings about 60-70% of new, depending on age, and service condition. On cameras, the P&S aren't as big an issue, as their shutter setup is completely different that an SLR. The better known brands have a ready supply of parts, and can be serviced by many third party vendors.

What I tell my students is to buy more camera that they think they'll need. Many people think they'll shoot video, but the reality is video is much more difficult to share "off the shelf" (a photo book). I shoot a couple of higher end Canons, that do motion picture quality video - but the reality is I shoot very little video, and mostly stills (and I have a separate video setup that I spent over $6k on, that I haven't used in 3 years).

Buying an "older" camera setup will save you big bucks. Like computers, manufacturer's come out with new models every couple of years, or so, touting a better processor, less "noise", etc. But unless you're blowing stuff up over 11x14, you can get exceptional detail with a 12MP camera. The quest for "more megapixels" does not make up for poor shooting techniques, or lack of knowledge about aperture, speed, DOF, etc.

Sounds like you're on the right track, and asking lots of good questions. But be prepared to spend almost as much on your flashes (and sync-cords) as you did on the camera/housing. Photography is all about the light. You can have the most perfectly framed shot, but with poor lighting, you can't fix it too well with Photoshop. A good twin flash setup, and arms, will set you back another $1200-$1500.00.

Happy hunting!
 

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