Another life lost on the Andrea Doria

[Gilldiver]

On a good day just about anyone can go down and touch the top of the Doria, on a bad day you need all your knowledge and experience to get back to the boat. The difference between a good day and a bad day can be less then 10 minutes with a change in the tide or current.

But at this point I would like to post what I put up on Deco Stop yesterday:



I would like to point out to all that there are Diving Accidents and then there are accidents that occur while diving.

The tendency is to start speculating on what happened and pointing out where a diver might have screwed up or done something different.

There are things we know, things we think we know, and things we can only guess at. Right now we only know that he died and his body was recovered.

Let's just hold our thoughts and eventually the facts will come out.

I can only hope that he is at peace and that the family will get through the next years with only good memories of him.

 

[Missdirected]

I'm requesting this thread be moved to accidents and incidents.

 

[Missdirected]

I have asked TS&andM to merge this thread with another (http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ne...hs/245786-another-life-lost-andrea-doria.html). Additionally I am going to ask she separate the condolences out of this one. Placing all condolences here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/passings/245946-terry-dewolf.html where they rightfully belong. This way, if the family chooses, they can print the condolence thread w/o having to read any analysis.

 

[tridacna]

The Doria's reputation for difficulty is it's biggest safety feature. Diver's tend to be their sharpest when doing dives like this, where as divers on "safe" wrecks become complacent. The three divers that died on the Spiegle last year had all dove the Doria, but chose to dive the Spigle equipped as if they were doing a 40 ft reef dive. Diving has been marketed to the masses. Opporators need many divers to dive these "safe" wrecks to survive.

Safe Dives
trtldvr
www.divealive.org

Let's drop the inane comments about the Spiegel divers. That's serious BS. 40 ft reef dive? They were diving 28% Nitrox (with stage tanks left on the wreck). They carried but did not use reels. They used strobes. Yeah, they screwed up. I hate it when people have NO about what they are talking and then malign the dead. Disgusting.
:no

 

[LobstaMan]

I would like to point out to all that there are Diving Accidents and then there are accidents that occur while diving.

Good quote. That's the difference between a bad decision and a bad heart. Having a heart attack underwater doesn't make it a diving accident in my opinion. Exceeding your training and/or abilities or having a gear malfunction is a diving accident....IMHO.

Uninformed speculation isn't very helpful either at this early stage. An analysis should wait until all the available info has been collected. Even then, all the answers might not be forthcoming. I'm going to wait for more info.

LobstaMan

 

[Missdirected]

An analysis should wait until all the available info has been collected. Even then, all the answers might not be forthcoming. I'm going to wait for more info.

LobstaMan

fair enough. However, all available info doesn't usually end up here unfortunately. So we typically take what is available and discuss what we can. I know discussing these things has saved my butt b 4.

 

[trtldvr]

Good quote. That's the difference between a bad decision and a bad heart. Having a heart attack underwater doesn't make it a diving accident in my opinion. Exceeding your training and/or abilities or having a gear malfunction is a diving accident....IMHO.

I agree with this to an extent, but I believe that maintaning fitness to dive is just as important as maintaning skills and gear.

Safe dives
trtldvr
www.divealive.org

 

[chilie]

Good quote. That's the difference between a bad decision and a bad heart. Having a heart attack underwater doesn't make it a diving accident in my opinion. Exceeding your training and/or abilities or having a gear malfunction is a diving accident....IMHO.

I agree with this to an extent, but I believe that maintaning fitness to dive is just as important as maintaning skills and gear.

Safe dives
trtldvr
www.divealive.org

I agree with you that equipment and training must be properly maintained. But I unequivocally find fault with the notion that "maintaining fitness" will leave you from the reaper: a heart attack underwater. I take pride in how I look and give careful consideration to what I eat, but I lament the fact you allude to staying fit as staying alive. Ask Jim Fixx. Eat right, Excersise daily, Die anyway. We don't know when our number is up, but so be it that if someone dies under the waves, or ripples in cases of quarries, from congestive heart failure;or the like let us not assume they were out of shape, overweight or obese. Heart failure can kill us all equally dead. If you're alive and any of these young, middle-aged, old, short, average, tall, skinny, athletic or fat.

 

[trtldvr]

I agree with you that equipment and training must be properly maintained. But I unequivocally find fault with the notion that "maintaining fitness" will leave you from the reaper: a heart attack underwater. I take pride in how I look and give careful consideration to what I eat, but I lament the fact you allude to staying fit as staying alive. Ask Jim Fixx. Eat right, Excersise daily, Die anyway. We don't know when our number is up, but so be it that if someone dies under the waves, or ripples in cases of quarries, from congestive heart failure;or the like let us not assume they were out of shape, overweight or obese. Heart failure can kill us all equally dead. If you're alive and any of these young, middle-aged, old, short, average, tall, skinny, athletic or fat.

Yes, I know we can do nothing about genetics, but if a person is a couch potato 50 weeks a year they are greatly increasing their risks of a heart attack the other two weeks of the year. Diving can be very easy, but it can quickly become physically demanding. Fighting a current to return to the boat, lugging gear, add a constrictive wet suit, sun and dehydration and it can become a bad day at sea.

We practice skills to reduce the risk of making a mistake. We follow tables or use a computor to reduce the risk of decompression illnes. We have our gear serviced to reduce the risk of a malfunction. None of these measures eliminate risk, but they do reduce it to an exceptable level. If they did not we would not continue to dive. Fitness is the same. It only reduces the risk. Each diver should decide where their exceptable level is, but I believe many make the choice of denial (not a dive location in Africa) instead.

 

[jonahfab]

Yes, I know we can do nothing about genetics, but if a person is a couch potato 50 weeks a year they are greatly increasing their risks of a heart attack the other two weeks of the year. Diving can be very easy, but it can quickly become physically demanding. Fighting a current to return to the boat, lugging gear, add a constrictive wet suit, sun and dehydration and it can become a bad day at sea.

We practice skills to reduce the risk of making a mistake. We follow tables or use a computor to reduce the risk of decompression illnes. We have our gear serviced to reduce the risk of a malfunction. None of these measures eliminate risk, but they do reduce it to an exceptable level. If they did not we would not continue to dive. Fitness is the same. It only reduces the risk. Each diver should decide where their exceptable level is, but I believe many make the choice of denial (not a dive location in Africa) instead.

Very well put. I think that's something we are take for granted at some point.