Another Holocaust National History Day
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The U.S. shut off oil exports to Japan (economic boycot?) after they invaded China. That is why Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. The master plan was to take the California oil fields. In the 1930's California was a major oil producer and Japan's main supplier. Why don't they teach this in history class. Oh I forgot. There are no history classes in schools now.
DeputyDan
Contributor
Lots of uglys happened in Cambodia too!
The Japanese "Master Plan" had absolutely NOTHING to do with California oil fields. They wanted the oil belonging to European colonial masters in Asia, most especially to the Dutch. Pearl Harbor was forced on the Japanese when the US embargoed oil sales to Japan. The Japanese knew they were much weaker than the US, but hoped a fast knockout blow against Hawaiian bases would force the US to allow Japan a free hand in the crumbling unsustainable european empires of Asia after the mother countries in Europe fell to Hitler. The key question, in brief, is 'who owns an Asian colony when the Great Power that created it has been defeated and is occupied by another nation?' France and Holland had been thoroughly beaten by Germany in 1940. What then becomes of their Asian colonies? Japan felt it had a right to seize them. After all, those colonies had been seized by the Dutch, the French, and the British.
I feel we in the US have no business involving ourselves in holocaust issues that had nothing directlty to do with the US. Certainly not until we address the holocausts that we were responsible for. It is an outrage and utter madness for there to be a 'Holocaust Museum" in Washington DC when there is nothing of comparable scale detailing the extermination of American Indians, and the continuing failue of the US government to account for the hundreds of billions of dollars of tribal trust monies that somehow disappeared; stolen, and unaccounted for. Forget the swiss banks owing some gold or artwork to the Jews. Where is all the money stolen from American Indians? I woun't even try to get into the issue of slavery, but where are the big museums and school curriculums and class trips connected to issues related to slavery? The murders perpetrated by the Japanese, the Germans, the Turks, etc., were horrible. Still, it seems to me that they should be less important to the USA than things for which we have been responsible.
The existence of a Holocaust center in Washington is a reflection of political power, not a relative index of magnitudes of evil, or the result of a comparison of examples of racial extermination programs. The absence of serious responses to the evils that we perpetrated , coupled with elaborate responses to evils perpretrated by others, has a rotten smell about it. It stinks.
"Know that the eagles of war whose wings brought you glory
they were never no more than carrion crows
pushed the wrens from their nest
took their place, changed their story
The mockingbird sings it; it's all that she knows."
(Blackfoot Lament)
Let the Europeans express their remorse for what they did. We should express our remorse about what we did.
I feel we in the US have no business involving ourselves in holocaust issues that had nothing directlty to do with the US. Certainly not until we address the holocausts that we were responsible for. It is an outrage and utter madness for there to be a 'Holocaust Museum" in Washington DC when there is nothing of comparable scale detailing the extermination of American Indians, and the continuing failue of the US government to account for the hundreds of billions of dollars of tribal trust monies that somehow disappeared; stolen, and unaccounted for. Forget the swiss banks owing some gold or artwork to the Jews. Where is all the money stolen from American Indians? I woun't even try to get into the issue of slavery, but where are the big museums and school curriculums and class trips connected to issues related to slavery? The murders perpetrated by the Japanese, the Germans, the Turks, etc., were horrible. Still, it seems to me that they should be less important to the USA than things for which we have been responsible.
The existence of a Holocaust center in Washington is a reflection of political power, not a relative index of magnitudes of evil, or the result of a comparison of examples of racial extermination programs. The absence of serious responses to the evils that we perpetrated , coupled with elaborate responses to evils perpretrated by others, has a rotten smell about it. It stinks.
"Know that the eagles of war whose wings brought you glory
they were never no more than carrion crows
pushed the wrens from their nest
took their place, changed their story
The mockingbird sings it; it's all that she knows."
(Blackfoot Lament)
Let the Europeans express their remorse for what they did. We should express our remorse about what we did.
dive_lover88
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Hey, it's all over...it's the past. What's gone is gone and done.This thread could go both ways....Firstly, I also lost my great grand pa in the world war 2 when we were occupied by the japs. We can only learn and prevent the past from reccurring once more. When I heard from my dad about what happened to my great grandpa, you're sure that i was mad. But when i had simmered, i asked myself what i wanted. Do i want to keep on hating those who did us harm or let it go...
Let's keep this civil.
peace
Let's keep this civil.
peace
fairybasslet
Contributor
Why do you make such a ridiculous assumption? My son in is high school and I can assure you, he has had history every year he has been in school. He may get C's, but he still has the class. In fact, today he is interview a veteran of WWII for a history project.DEF:
Au contraire... Japan had already cut a deal with Hitler before that - Pearl had been on the table for years (the basic plan was over a decade old)... it wasn't a matter of whether, but of when, and what would be the excuse.DEF:
There's a great line in "Flags of our Fathers" where Bradley, who holds a graduate degree in Japanese studies and was telling his father the "because we cut off their oil" bit, says his father just sliced off a piece of roast and handed it to him in exchange for the slice of bull he'd just gotten...
As for "no (real) history classes in schools now" I heartily agree with you.
Rick
I highly recommend that anyone interested in the official government exterminations of the 20th century (the European Jewish holocaust was 6,000,000 - only about 3.5% of the 20th century total of government sanctioned kills of about 170,000,000!) buy this DVD from the JFPO. It will open your eyes to the methods and the slippery slope to the conditions that allow such horrific tragedies.hoosier:
"Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it."
"A people who ignore history have no past... and no future."
Rick
That video needs to come with a disclaimer. . .
"Flags of Our Fathers" is pop-history, totally unreliable. The Japanese plan for a possible attack on Pearl was not part of any deal made with Hitler. That's just plain silly. The Pearl contingency plan, one among many contingency plans, was devised by Japanese strategists long before Hitler came to power. A potential conflict between Japan and the US over control of Asia became clear to both nations shortly after WW1. Contingency planning in both countries for future conflict was well under way by 1925. When the Great Depression devastated the world economy in 1929, the Japanese, who were (and are) 100% reliant on export sales, possessing no oil or other natural resources, realized that commerce had its limitations as a means of securing accesss to raw materials and markets, and began planning for possible war in earnest.
A moderate civilian government in Tokyo was replaced in 1930 (with some violence) by a militarist govermnent which began long range planning for future unpredictable changes in Asia. That European control of Asia was ending was a certaintity. The question was whether total American control over Asia would replace European control, or would Japan be able to secure hegemony over areas of Asia vital to its survival as the only non-western manufacturing economy in the world? If it did extend control over parts of Asia, would the US try to destroy Japan economically and/or militarily? The various contingency plans followed. Most of these hypothetical scenarios assumed that the US would try to maintain absolute Western control over Asia at all costs. They were, of course, correct.
Nazi connections with Japan came very late in the game, long after Japan occupied Manchuria and launched its general war against China a few years later. Japanese plans and actions in Asia had virtually no connection with Hitler's plans for Europe and the Soviet Union. There was very little coordination and cooperation between Germany and Japan. In fact, Japan maintained strict neutrality with the Soviet Union until the Soviets attacked Japan in August of 1945, part of a deal worked out between Roosevelt, Stalin, and Churchill at Yalta.
Squint Eastwood is a Hollywood Historian, which means he is about as accurate as comic books, George Lucas, Steven Spielberg, and hundreds of thousands of US high school history teachers, a few of whom I've had in classes I taught. A sadly mediocre group, for the most part. Less technically competent than even the average open water certified diver. Some even drew material from movies they saw, or novels they liked.
A moderate civilian government in Tokyo was replaced in 1930 (with some violence) by a militarist govermnent which began long range planning for future unpredictable changes in Asia. That European control of Asia was ending was a certaintity. The question was whether total American control over Asia would replace European control, or would Japan be able to secure hegemony over areas of Asia vital to its survival as the only non-western manufacturing economy in the world? If it did extend control over parts of Asia, would the US try to destroy Japan economically and/or militarily? The various contingency plans followed. Most of these hypothetical scenarios assumed that the US would try to maintain absolute Western control over Asia at all costs. They were, of course, correct.
Nazi connections with Japan came very late in the game, long after Japan occupied Manchuria and launched its general war against China a few years later. Japanese plans and actions in Asia had virtually no connection with Hitler's plans for Europe and the Soviet Union. There was very little coordination and cooperation between Germany and Japan. In fact, Japan maintained strict neutrality with the Soviet Union until the Soviets attacked Japan in August of 1945, part of a deal worked out between Roosevelt, Stalin, and Churchill at Yalta.
Squint Eastwood is a Hollywood Historian, which means he is about as accurate as comic books, George Lucas, Steven Spielberg, and hundreds of thousands of US high school history teachers, a few of whom I've had in classes I taught. A sadly mediocre group, for the most part. Less technically competent than even the average open water certified diver. Some even drew material from movies they saw, or novels they liked.
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