Another cave diver lost

[Kevin Carlisle]

Really surprised to hear we lost another cave diver so soon. The name has been released but I willnot post it since I didn't know her personally. This pne happened over in England and from what I read a lot wasn't known yet as to what happened. My point here is to tell everyone to slow down and Think. This is too many, everyone stay vigilent and have fun but don't put yourself in a situation you cannt get out of. I would like that to be the last one we hear about this year.

 

[karstdvr]

My point here is to tell everyone to slow down and Think.

Good advice that we can't hear enough.

 

[CamG]

THANKS guys those words have been reverberating in my mind for months.
Since I was confronted by a instructor about some dives that I was on this previous year.
There is a great value, WISDOM in taking your time and building your experience slowly and not diving beyond training / and or the RULES!
I realize there are explorers out there who have far more experience and training than most but RULES ARE RULES!
They are in place to prevent issues and ultimately death of the diver.

In some instances conditions deteriorate and contribute to fatalities but those are risks that we train for hopefully.
Health issues amongst so many others.
Conservatism and planning have been ringing in my ears as well as my wife and kids.
It makes your words all the more clear, SLOW DOWN, TAKE YOUR TIME, HAVE FUN, DIVE SAFE!

This will be a really rough year on the cave community and losses take a while to heal.
For all those who are diving it is a tragedy as the media splashes there version of truth into the mix.
I do believe that the facts of these accidents dispel the mis-information and thus encourage safe practices.
The issue is that the facts rarely come out or you have to wade through a ton of BS to actually find the truth if you are lucky!
I am not saying this to hijack or derail the OP but I think it is viable to the topic.

It is another sad day.

CamG Keep Diving....Keep Training....Keep Learning!

 

[Sinbad Scuba]

Thanks CamG. I hope you dont mind, but I am going to copy and paste your words and send them to dive students I have certified. Cheers, Jeff

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

THANKS guys those words have been reverberating in my mind for months.
Since I was confronted by a instructor about some dives that I was on this previous year.
There is a great value, WISDOM in taking your time and building your experience slowly and not diving beyond training / and or the RULES!
I realize there are explorers out there who have far more experience and training than most but RULES ARE RULES!
They are in place to prevent issues and ultimately death of the diver.

In some instances conditions deteriorate and contribute to fatalities but those are risks that we train for hopefully.
Health issues amongst so many others.
Conservatism and planning have been ringing in my ears as well as my wife and kids.
It makes your words all the more clear, SLOW DOWN, TAKE YOUR TIME, HAVE FUN, DIVE SAFE!

This will be a really rough year on the cave community and losses take a while to heal.
For all those who are diving it is a tragedy as the media splashes there version of truth into the mix.
I do believe that the facts of these accidents dispel the mis-information and thus encourage safe practices.
The issue is that the facts rarely come out or you have to wade through a ton of BS to actually find the truth if you are lucky!
I am not saying this to hijack or derail the OP but I think it is viable to the topic.

It is another sad day.

CamG Keep Diving....Keep Training....Keep Learning!

I would say 98% of cave divers are not explorers and they need to get that straight. it takes a certain type of individual to risk it all like Sorenson or a Toland and those that were there before them. Contender on this thread has been around a long time, if Kelly talks I listen. You can learn a lot about safe thinking from these guys. I dont think you are earning any of their respect for doing dives you really arent ready for.

Too many I see now are more concerned with reaching an arrow with a penetration indicator than they are with enjoying the cave they are in. This type of ego based diving is going to bite someone soon and for what? If you cant be happy with 500ft of penetration as to 4k, you probably need to ask if this type of diving is right for you.

Cam you arent the first to be confronted by an instructor, I know several others who have also. After reading some of your posts I believe you listened, some of the others I know of did not. They think I was able to do it once and it was easy, and it always is easy until something goes wrong.

The best compliment I get isnt for being a great cave diver, im average at best or for going to the EOL of a system, my dive buddies will say I am a smart diver and a fun person to dive with. We have fun because that is what its all about. I dont know anyone I dive with that will dive a cave with these zero to hero people either, they go too fast and then they arent ready for the simpliest of issues that can come up.

 

[The Chairman]

I would say 98% of cave divers are not explorers and they need to get that straight.

Kevin, we hardly if ever disagree, but I believe you have underestimated a bit. Its my belief that %99.5+ of cave divers will never lay new line or see virgin cave. Even that figure may be too conservative.

While I understand, or least think I understand, the motivation of the explorer: I am not one and I don't want to be one. Diving caves is fun but you can't let your guard down. Complacency is deadly and rather than being "bliss", ignorance is deadly.

I dive by this caveat: "When in doubt, do without." Diving, even in caves, is optional. Living is not.

 

[TSandM]

It's important information to read, and heed . . . and not just for the beginners.

I was guilty, not too long ago, of doing a dive with two friends, one of whom has FAR more experience than I have, and one of whom had just finished her Cave class. We did several dives together during the week, and one of the last ones involved a stage, complex navigation, and a camera . . . and after I got home, I got to thinking that that was probably a more ambitious dive than our third buddy ought to have been doing at that point. She didn't say anything, and at the time, I just didn't think about it . . . but I remember doing a complex nav dive at roughly the same point in my career, and coming out, realizing I wasn't sure just how many jumps we had done, and that that was proof that I was in over my head (so to speak) on that dive.

Beginners need to take things slowly, and those of us who are used to doing bigger dives, need to remember not to encourage them to push their limits, even if that's done inadvertently.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Kevin, we hardly if ever disagree, but I believe you have underestimated a bit. Its my belief that %99.5+ of cave divers will never lay new line or see virgin cave. Even that figure may be too conservative.

While I understand, or least think I understand, the motivation of the explorer: I am not one and I don't want to be one. Diving caves is fun but you can't let your guard down. Complacency is deadly and rather than being "bliss", ignorance is deadly.

I dive by this caveat: "When in doubt, do without." Diving, even in caves, is optional. Living is not.

True, but I was including those from 30 years ago. I think 98% would be close. If we talk last 10 years, yeah I would go with your figure.

 

[The Chairman]

True, but I was including those from 30 years ago. I think 98% would be close. If we talk last 10 years, yeah I would go with your figure.

Yeah, I am thinking about our current audience. It wasn't hard to find virgin cave 30 years ago. It is today.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Yeah, I am thinking about our current audience. It wasn't hard to find virgin cave 30 years ago. It is today.

They are closely kept secrets for sure.