Anatomy of Great Lakes wreck dive - the Stalker

[Diveral]

Loved the pictures thanks for sharing. I get to dive with some of the members of the GLSPS although they come down here and dive in my warmer waters with me. i am impressed with teh quality of diver that comes from diving the Great lakes. Though I would love to one day dive on one of the Great Lakes wrecks with them, I am really set up for warm waters and don't dive cold often enough to incur the expense of cold water gear.

Used to have it when I dove in TS&M's waters. That was 18 years and 70lbs ago and I no longer have any of that stuff.

I started doing deep wreck penetrations before there were any overhead or wreck classes, self taught progressive penetration. I've adapted over the years and borrowed the techniques pioneered by the cave divers and later adapted for the wreck divers. I now carry spools and reels into the wrecks with me and found some of their other techniques very useful. Although I haven't gotten any formal training I have several hundred penetration dives under my weightbelt.

I agree with TS&M that penetration diving for new divers is not a good idea. With the classes now available it is a lot safer to take this in a class than trying to learn on your own. i am planning on taking an advanced nitrox/deco class combined with wreckdiving sometime soon to see if I can pick up some additional techniques.

AL

 

[b1gcountry]

Those are some pretty nice pictures. If you managed to get those shots-without any silt stirred up-then you obviously had the skills needed for the dive.

How high was the silt inside? from the pictures it looks like there's only a couple feet clearance between the deck and the silt...

Thanks for sharing.

Tom

 

[JayJudge]

Awesome pics, thank your buddy. I have 2 things to say, and I'll keep it simple and nice. Any card only shows that you have the beginnings of the type of diving listed, with the skills given by the instructors you worked with. Some divers are immediately beyond that, some are barely at that point. Its like a college degree- you passed, the degree doesn't list your placement in the class...TS&M- that was one of the best, most thought out posts I have seen from you.
Secondly- I happen to have the PADI colder than a martini, black water, shore diver, and pool diver cards. Man that pool diver cert was hard! Oh, I forgot, all my friends and I also have the Tub Diver cert.......next up- scubaboard poster card, lol
-J

 

[kidsdream]

I originally posted this "report" (my buddy posted a trip report as well) on Scuba Diving's message board. I placed the post on the general section of the D2D board, so I did add a few comments about the nature of my dive and the fact that nearly all the other divers on the trip did no penetrations at all and that this type of diving should be taken seriously.

I did not feel the need to add such comments when posting this in a specific Tech/wreck sub-group, to be honest I still don't. No doubt, any time you enter a wreck you need to take care and understand your limits and dive your plan. This is especially true in very cold water. In fact IMHO, the cold water keeps me a lot more focused on the danger as you are always aware of this real environmental issue. Now going into places the Regina's engine room certainly required a reel as I noted in a post describing my dive in May.

Back to your questions.

I shot these images with my 16MM fisheye lens, so the perspective is a bit deceiving. The hold was pretty generous, with at least 4-5' of clearance to the silt in nearly every area. As my buddy Johnoly noted in response to my D2D post, I did not stir up the bottom. I do take care, and in this case I could see daylight at all time.

All that said, I am looking forward to get back to some warm water diving in the Keys with my son next week. No wreck penetration, no real deep dives; just some fun diving. Oh yea, I will be going up to Jupiter with my hunter buddy's. They will be spear fishing. I will be shooting - my camera. No those crazy folks fighting off bull sharks to keep their catch - that is scary stuff.



Here is a link to another wreck dive that I posted in the Great Lakes section (post 20)
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/great-lakes-wrecking-crew/243988-bound-michigan-thumb-2.html

Those are some pretty nice pictures. If you managed to get those shots-without any silt stirred up-then you obviously had the skills needed for the dive.

How high was the silt inside? from the pictures it looks like there's only a couple feet clearance between the deck and the silt...

Thanks for sharing.

Tom

 

[rescue15]

The scuba police are really getting on my nerves. I have been diving since before "tech" classes, I don't hold a card for it but I bet I can do it safely. I've been diving North and central Atlantic wrecks since late 80's and doing heavy decompression dives to boot! I lost out on a penetration dive in FL this spring because of it - even though my log book reflected my experience. I wonder if any dive operations would tell Gary Gentile he couldn't penetrate the Sp. Grove! The only cards I carry are my Rescue Diver and Nitrox cards...it's all anybody should need if they have the logged dives to back up their experience. Hmm...I only dive in a dry suit - never had the specialty class and I'm still alive! Everybody is so into what card's in your wallet they forget about the school of hard knocks. I understand in today's world nobody is ever responsible for their own actions and everybody sues everybody ...but really!



BTW...NICE PICS!

Steve

 

[b1gcountry]

Their boat, their rules. I can't blame someone for not letting you on their boat when they don't know you and you don't have formal training. Seeing someone die is a real bummer, lawsuit or not, and it puts the entire boat at danger. I don't care what you do off your own boat, but if you're on the same charter as I am, you better be trained for the dive we're doing (and I'm not talking about PADI specialty courses.)

Tom

 

[rescue15]

I really don't want to get in an argument here but a card in your wallet is only worth the plastic it's made of. I understand there are many people out there who are irresponsible. There are also alot more out there that take life seriously and have the knowledge, skill and experience to dive circles around many people who carry around 50 cards. Who would you rather dive with...a brand new instructor with 75 dives worth of experience that went to FL for 2 weeks, and spent that 2 weeks learning to be an instructor, or a person with AOW, no specialties, 500 dives under his belt, and spent the last 20 years diving every wreck he could find in the North Atlantic? I would rather dive with the guy with the 500 dives!

I work in an industry that experience is worth a whole lot more than your title. There are officers I would listen to and there are others that can't put out a campfire. The ones that can't put out a campfire may have every training class ever offered but they still can't put out a fire - so what good is the card in their pocket? There are also officers that have not set foot in a class room in 10 years but have the experience to command and safely extinguish a high rise fire. Should he not be able to be in charge because he didn't take the high rise fire class?

I realize it's "their boat, their rules" but when you come from an area that dives in conditions that are much more advanced, and go to an area where dive charter captains complain about the water being too rough in 1 foot seas maybe things should be reasessed. I can get on any dive charter in MD, DE, NY or NJ, show my log book and dive and penetrate any wreck I want. Something is wrong when the next week in FL, I show the same log book and am told I can't even do a pass thru on the Bibb because I don't have a tech card!

Steve

 

[24940]

If you are asking questions and making statements like these, I'd have to question your experience and the safety of the dives you claim to be doing. It seems you have been lucky so far, but I'd rather not count on luck as a substitute for a solid plan. If I am liable for your actions, I would take steps to assure you do the same or you don't dive.

The scuba police are really getting on my nerves. I have been diving since before "tech" classes, I don't hold a card for it but I bet I can do it safely. I've been diving North and central Atlantic wrecks since late 80's and doing heavy decompression dives to boot! I lost out on a penetration dive in FL this spring because of it - even though my log book reflected my experience. I wonder if any dive operations would tell Gary Gentile he couldn't penetrate the Sp. Grove! The only cards I carry are my Rescue Diver and Nitrox cards...it's all anybody should need if they have the logged dives to back up their experience. Hmm...I only dive in a dry suit - never had the specialty class and I'm still alive! Everybody is so into what card's in your wallet they forget about the school of hard knocks. I understand in today's world nobody is ever responsible for their own actions and everybody sues everybody ...but really!



BTW...NICE PICS!

Steve

 

[rescue15]

If you are asking questions and making statements like these, I'd have to question your experience and the safety of the dives you claim to be doing. It seems you have been lucky so far, but I'd rather not count on luck as a substitute for a solid plan. If I am liable for your actions, I would take steps to assure you do the same or you don't dive.

If you knew the whole story about my post questioning the steel 72 tank you wouldn't be questioning my knowledge or experience. I was looking around in a shop that I never went in before and found a really good price on a used tank. The owner insisted it would be good for dives in the 100 + foot range. I didn't think that was sound advice so I posed the question. This is a forum to ask questions and learn isn't it?

I guess this site isn't for constructive critcisim but only a forum to tell everybody else how poor their diving skills are - especially if you aren't a DIR diver or carry every speciality that every agency offers. I 'll tell you what, if you ever get in trouble on a dive you would be lucky to have a buddy half as capable as I am.

 

[JEScholz]

Thanks for the great pics and post. I was in the straights two weeks ago but didn't hit the Stalker. Now I know what to expect next year.

Dive what you feel comfortable diving, the way you feel comfortable diving it. Experience is a great teacher, provided you live to learn from the experience.