FIXXERVI6
Contributor
Crazyduck suggested I start a new thread around this topic so I will try to summarize here.
Ramblings of a side mount newbie:
Most everything below is my opinion, I am not a dive god and I only have about 30 - 35 side mount dives in outside of training.
I played with side mount off and on for a while trying to get steel 108’s to work, but I was never satisfied with some aspect at any given time, be it trim, equipment access, hoses, etc. I decided to take a side mount class with Jeff Lofflin and it made my day – after the class I worked on ironing out the details and as of today I’m side mount only.
I dive a Nomad for steels and my “bigger” dives. I’ve enjoyed it quite a bit, while it’s not ALL plus’s I’ve enjoyed it enough to find work arounds for what I consider the con’s of side mount. To me the only thing that was missing was that small travel rig for vacation, or cave diving in akumal or playing in the local pond. I’ve seen people dive aluminum 80’s on the nomad and I’ve never been satisfied with how they are dove on that rig, so in my mind, the nomad is for my steels and big dives only.
After digging around on the web I got turned onto a kit called “the razor” made by Steve out of Mexico (Go Side Mount - Steve Bogaerts) – you have to watch the videos!!!!!!! After watching several video’s of him, in my mind the kit looks much better suited to aluminums than the nomad (not saying the nomad can’t be used for 80’s I just feel its overkill).
I decided at that point I had to have it or something like it, the rig I have now is very similar. I sat down, did some quick math for how much lead I needed strapped on 2 80’s and off I went. My first thought was it was going to take forever to get the rig dialed in – nope, perfect on first try.
The first thing I noticed was how balanced and free the rig felt, so easy to roll, flip, swim upside down it was amazing, then the tanks started to hit the sweet spot, where they start getting closer to neutral, and at that point I felt like I was diving naked. By far the funnest dive I’ve ever had with aluminum cylinders, and my favorite rig above all others I’ve tried. I went from jacked to BP/W and it was an eye opener, going from BP/W to this was enlightenment!
I put a 4 liter MSR bag on providing about 8lbs of lift while wearing a 5/7 wetsuit, 6lbs of lead and two aluminum 80’s. At the start when the tanks are full I cannot float at the surface, with full bladder and lungs just the top of my head sticks out, when the tanks are below 1200 psi I can float with my mouth barely out of the water – I chose this amount of lift based on not planning on using this rig in the ocean, if I needed to I would increase lift. People have rigged regular wings to similar setups for bigger lift, but I was after minimum (I could get away with smaller than 4 liters if I wanted absolute rock bottom minimum).
With such small amount of lift it’s critical to have the weight dialed in as near perfect as possible, pulled from another thread:
With only 8lbs of lift there is not a lot of room for error, currently with full tanks I cannot float with my head out of the water with two full 80's, when they are breathed down I can float with my head out of the water.
One may say the obvious fix is to add more lift for more margin and don't worry about the extra pound of lead.
That affects bouncy control - example
Nomad approx 25 liters of capacity, let's say with 108's @ 3600 we are running half full, 12.5 liters approx 27 lbs of lift, this is realistic considering 108's @ 3600 are around -11 each, if you drop in the water column 33 feet your bladder goes from 27lbs of lift to approx 13.5lbs of lift, that is a 13.5lbs shift (approx), males can swap out about 2 liters of air on a breath (corrected by psiborg) - about 4lbs of lift, that means you're going to be a rock you will have to add gas to your bladder even with full breath you are going to sink with a 13.5lbs shift in lift.
In steps mini bcd 8lbs of lift if you're running 3/4 full and you have 3 liters in, that’s about 6lbs of lift approx, now drop 33 feet you now have 3lbs of lift, that means you have to make up 3lbs of lift with your lungs if you do not add air to your BCD - can you do it? You betcha. The more lift your BCD has and the more weight you have to lift with it, the more you have to mess with the inflator.
The closer to neutral I can get the entire rig the bigger the shift in depth I can handle without having to add/remove gas from the BCD.
You'll notice newer divers with 20lbs of lead will tend to show an increase in bouncy control when you get them properly weighted.
If I could sit down with the equipment and a calculator to come up with the exact amount of weight I need to the ounce, I would do it, but there are too many factors that come into play to be able to do that, so to the pound will make me happy.
Currently with 6lbs of lead and a 5/7 wetsuit, two aluminum 80's with no plate or manifold I can hover in 10 feet of water with 500 psi in each cylinder and there is still a little gas left in my BCD, I'll be satisfied when I can do that with 350psi in each cylinder and no gas whatsoever in my BCD.
With all of that said I would like to have 5lbs of lead on, so I asked if anyone knew where I could get 2.5 pounders, several great suggestions from here http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/texas-swamp-divers/300601-source-lead-weights-2-5lbs.html but I think I like timeliners idea the best, get the drill out and start poking holes in the 3 pounders!
On my second dive I practiced swimming with one cylinder in front, then two (swing them around in front of you, go watch the videos) and I was shocked to find I could swing the cylinders out front and just hover, perfect trim, easy to swim around. I started darting in and out of holes in the plane at CSSP, the boats, anything I could find – pretty cool, I can’t do that with steel 108’s and a nomad. From there I wondered about one cylinder so I shut my right one off, took it off and went for a swim with just one, it was great! I then removed the left cylinder entirely, and swam holding the valve out in front of me pushing it forward; I was able to swim through the windows on the CSSP plane with speed and ease! Prior to doing this, here is out I cleared the windows (from a message I sent):
I've done it rigged in 108's drysuit can light the entire shibang, if you go to the windows you will find one window who's edges are bent inward more than the rest, I did this to help avoid shredding any part of my gear because some of those window edges are very sharp.
The window with the bent in edges is the only window I will go through in my drysuit but it kind of goes like this: remove can light sit it inside the window, remove long hose, remove right cylinder put it through the window, unhook but do not remove left cylinder and I allow it to hang on my D-Ring by a choker type setup, this allows me to remove gear but not shoot up to the surface. The choker is long enough I can sit the left cylinder inside the window with me only having one arm through the window, I then put both arms straight forward and wiggle through, the put everything back on once inside, its not a fast process! I consider this a partial no mount as technically one cylinder is still attached by means of the choker to a D-Ring.
While diving the aluminum setup it is multitudes faster and easier, I've done several windows several ways, including the side window on the cockpit that is busted out: Remove right cylinder, put it through, hang left cylinder on d-ring and go through like with drysuit (I do this if cylinders are at 3000 psi or near) if my cylinders are around 2000 psi I fully remove both cylinders, hold both out in front of me and just swim through, nothing to it, 1000 to 1500 psi sometimes I'll just ditch one cylinder then no mount the other cylinder out front by holding the valve and pushing it like a scooter out front - talk about freedom.
The windows are the smallest over all hole I have found in CSSP but not the tightest thing to clear, the side windows on the old boat are tighter (the long windows that are low along the haul, several feet long only a foot or less high) I've tried several ways to clear that while wearing my steel's and drysuit and it just won't go, the bladder won't squeeze through. I can do that in the other rig however it takes some work, I put the cylinders in ahead of me then I stop about half way up my back, let the cylinders hang down, reach out behind me and squeeze my MSR bag flat, then pop it through and re inflate it.
If I could find a smaller hole, I could actually pass things tighter than that window by removing the MSR bag while in the water and going to like a 3mm suit.
In terms of skill it is visually more impressive than actually doing it, I took a newbie out, maybe 30 dives under his belt, and on his first sidemount dive in the small aluminum style setup I had him clearing the windows on the plane on his first dive.
Yea, long post sorry.
I don’t have any videos of this but I’d be happy to show this to anyone any time we are out at the pond. I am by no means an instructor, expert etc but I will show anyone what I know and what works for me about diving this way.
Thread Ref.
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/texas-swamp-divers/300601-source-lead-weights-2-5lbs.html
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/texas-swamp-divers/299480-cssp-coords.html
Ramblings of a side mount newbie:
Most everything below is my opinion, I am not a dive god and I only have about 30 - 35 side mount dives in outside of training.
I played with side mount off and on for a while trying to get steel 108’s to work, but I was never satisfied with some aspect at any given time, be it trim, equipment access, hoses, etc. I decided to take a side mount class with Jeff Lofflin and it made my day – after the class I worked on ironing out the details and as of today I’m side mount only.
I dive a Nomad for steels and my “bigger” dives. I’ve enjoyed it quite a bit, while it’s not ALL plus’s I’ve enjoyed it enough to find work arounds for what I consider the con’s of side mount. To me the only thing that was missing was that small travel rig for vacation, or cave diving in akumal or playing in the local pond. I’ve seen people dive aluminum 80’s on the nomad and I’ve never been satisfied with how they are dove on that rig, so in my mind, the nomad is for my steels and big dives only.
After digging around on the web I got turned onto a kit called “the razor” made by Steve out of Mexico (Go Side Mount - Steve Bogaerts) – you have to watch the videos!!!!!!! After watching several video’s of him, in my mind the kit looks much better suited to aluminums than the nomad (not saying the nomad can’t be used for 80’s I just feel its overkill).
I decided at that point I had to have it or something like it, the rig I have now is very similar. I sat down, did some quick math for how much lead I needed strapped on 2 80’s and off I went. My first thought was it was going to take forever to get the rig dialed in – nope, perfect on first try.
The first thing I noticed was how balanced and free the rig felt, so easy to roll, flip, swim upside down it was amazing, then the tanks started to hit the sweet spot, where they start getting closer to neutral, and at that point I felt like I was diving naked. By far the funnest dive I’ve ever had with aluminum cylinders, and my favorite rig above all others I’ve tried. I went from jacked to BP/W and it was an eye opener, going from BP/W to this was enlightenment!
I put a 4 liter MSR bag on providing about 8lbs of lift while wearing a 5/7 wetsuit, 6lbs of lead and two aluminum 80’s. At the start when the tanks are full I cannot float at the surface, with full bladder and lungs just the top of my head sticks out, when the tanks are below 1200 psi I can float with my mouth barely out of the water – I chose this amount of lift based on not planning on using this rig in the ocean, if I needed to I would increase lift. People have rigged regular wings to similar setups for bigger lift, but I was after minimum (I could get away with smaller than 4 liters if I wanted absolute rock bottom minimum).
With such small amount of lift it’s critical to have the weight dialed in as near perfect as possible, pulled from another thread:
With only 8lbs of lift there is not a lot of room for error, currently with full tanks I cannot float with my head out of the water with two full 80's, when they are breathed down I can float with my head out of the water.
One may say the obvious fix is to add more lift for more margin and don't worry about the extra pound of lead.
That affects bouncy control - example
Nomad approx 25 liters of capacity, let's say with 108's @ 3600 we are running half full, 12.5 liters approx 27 lbs of lift, this is realistic considering 108's @ 3600 are around -11 each, if you drop in the water column 33 feet your bladder goes from 27lbs of lift to approx 13.5lbs of lift, that is a 13.5lbs shift (approx), males can swap out about 2 liters of air on a breath (corrected by psiborg) - about 4lbs of lift, that means you're going to be a rock you will have to add gas to your bladder even with full breath you are going to sink with a 13.5lbs shift in lift.
In steps mini bcd 8lbs of lift if you're running 3/4 full and you have 3 liters in, that’s about 6lbs of lift approx, now drop 33 feet you now have 3lbs of lift, that means you have to make up 3lbs of lift with your lungs if you do not add air to your BCD - can you do it? You betcha. The more lift your BCD has and the more weight you have to lift with it, the more you have to mess with the inflator.
The closer to neutral I can get the entire rig the bigger the shift in depth I can handle without having to add/remove gas from the BCD.
You'll notice newer divers with 20lbs of lead will tend to show an increase in bouncy control when you get them properly weighted.
If I could sit down with the equipment and a calculator to come up with the exact amount of weight I need to the ounce, I would do it, but there are too many factors that come into play to be able to do that, so to the pound will make me happy.
Currently with 6lbs of lead and a 5/7 wetsuit, two aluminum 80's with no plate or manifold I can hover in 10 feet of water with 500 psi in each cylinder and there is still a little gas left in my BCD, I'll be satisfied when I can do that with 350psi in each cylinder and no gas whatsoever in my BCD.
With all of that said I would like to have 5lbs of lead on, so I asked if anyone knew where I could get 2.5 pounders, several great suggestions from here http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/texas-swamp-divers/300601-source-lead-weights-2-5lbs.html but I think I like timeliners idea the best, get the drill out and start poking holes in the 3 pounders!
On my second dive I practiced swimming with one cylinder in front, then two (swing them around in front of you, go watch the videos) and I was shocked to find I could swing the cylinders out front and just hover, perfect trim, easy to swim around. I started darting in and out of holes in the plane at CSSP, the boats, anything I could find – pretty cool, I can’t do that with steel 108’s and a nomad. From there I wondered about one cylinder so I shut my right one off, took it off and went for a swim with just one, it was great! I then removed the left cylinder entirely, and swam holding the valve out in front of me pushing it forward; I was able to swim through the windows on the CSSP plane with speed and ease! Prior to doing this, here is out I cleared the windows (from a message I sent):
I've done it rigged in 108's drysuit can light the entire shibang, if you go to the windows you will find one window who's edges are bent inward more than the rest, I did this to help avoid shredding any part of my gear because some of those window edges are very sharp.
The window with the bent in edges is the only window I will go through in my drysuit but it kind of goes like this: remove can light sit it inside the window, remove long hose, remove right cylinder put it through the window, unhook but do not remove left cylinder and I allow it to hang on my D-Ring by a choker type setup, this allows me to remove gear but not shoot up to the surface. The choker is long enough I can sit the left cylinder inside the window with me only having one arm through the window, I then put both arms straight forward and wiggle through, the put everything back on once inside, its not a fast process! I consider this a partial no mount as technically one cylinder is still attached by means of the choker to a D-Ring.
While diving the aluminum setup it is multitudes faster and easier, I've done several windows several ways, including the side window on the cockpit that is busted out: Remove right cylinder, put it through, hang left cylinder on d-ring and go through like with drysuit (I do this if cylinders are at 3000 psi or near) if my cylinders are around 2000 psi I fully remove both cylinders, hold both out in front of me and just swim through, nothing to it, 1000 to 1500 psi sometimes I'll just ditch one cylinder then no mount the other cylinder out front by holding the valve and pushing it like a scooter out front - talk about freedom.
The windows are the smallest over all hole I have found in CSSP but not the tightest thing to clear, the side windows on the old boat are tighter (the long windows that are low along the haul, several feet long only a foot or less high) I've tried several ways to clear that while wearing my steel's and drysuit and it just won't go, the bladder won't squeeze through. I can do that in the other rig however it takes some work, I put the cylinders in ahead of me then I stop about half way up my back, let the cylinders hang down, reach out behind me and squeeze my MSR bag flat, then pop it through and re inflate it.
If I could find a smaller hole, I could actually pass things tighter than that window by removing the MSR bag while in the water and going to like a 3mm suit.
In terms of skill it is visually more impressive than actually doing it, I took a newbie out, maybe 30 dives under his belt, and on his first sidemount dive in the small aluminum style setup I had him clearing the windows on the plane on his first dive.
Yea, long post sorry.
I don’t have any videos of this but I’d be happy to show this to anyone any time we are out at the pond. I am by no means an instructor, expert etc but I will show anyone what I know and what works for me about diving this way.
Thread Ref.
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/texas-swamp-divers/300601-source-lead-weights-2-5lbs.html
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/texas-swamp-divers/299480-cssp-coords.html
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