An age-old question: ways to 60m.

[Celt]

It seems some diving agencies can teach mind reading, fortune telling and you can go on to become a full blown prophet.

 

[flymolo]

It seems some diving agencies can teach mind reading, fortune telling and you can go on to become a full blown prophet.

you mean IANTD? don’t forget about the chakras

 

[SelfDiver]

I've never had anyone question my use of a snorkel on any dive. I would feel something is missing if my snorkel is not there with me. It's only on forums that people mention it.

View attachment 906684

The snorkel...Nitrox or Trimix?

 

[NothingClever]

@Boarderguy

It seems you’ve become entrenched to defend a piece of terrain and that no amount of logic, physiological studies and the experiences of more seasoned divers are sufficient to alter your penchant for and defense of deep air.

The dive objectives (topography, sites, etc) you’ve listed seem pretty unremarkable. While I understand the satisfaction we get from following a process and developing proficiency with procedures, I think seasoned technical divers are going to harness them to worthwhile objectives. TBH, it sounds like you’re going deep simply for the sake of going deep and it makes me curious what your highest level of training is. That isn’t intended to "weenie measure" or "pull rank" but rather to highlight that it's wise for us to check ourselves to ensure our enthusiasm doesn't exceed our formal training. Just because I'm reliably lethal with a pistol, can speak fluently enough to convince native speakers that my family is from the target area and I can blend in doesn't mean I have everything I need to just boldly infiltrate and operate as a singleton in a hostile, denied area of operations. The conditions for mission success and an uncomplicated exfiltration are much bigger than a few individual skills and a tall glass of confidence.

I echo what @Nick_Radov said and encourage you to think more broadly about your employment situation. We all lack the necessary funding for our biggest ambitions but that shouldn't be justification to "just go on and do it anyway". You mentioned that in five years you’ll be on a CCR unit and breathing mixed gas. Why not start seriously pursuing an adjustment to your employment situation to take slack out of the timeline so you can get on with the current passion for depth?

If there simply isn’t any flexibility to find more lucrative employment to afford better gas, then wouldn’t better judgment lead you to conclude, “I’ll wait until I get my RB to do these dives.”? There’s still plenty of awesome diving to be done, especially because you have a DPV. I’m blessed to dive Trimix every month if I want but some of my best dives have been at 1-2 ATMs. I challenge any hypoxic Trimix diver to assert that his joy at 90m is more valuable or virtuous than my joy at 9m.

I think it's a good idea to review your life insurance coverage and to check the exclusionary policies. It could be your wife makes more money than you but I’d bargain that she’s still depending on you being there into old age. At the depths you’re working towards, if something goes wrong, it’s likely to spiral downward in a hurry. It sounds like you've already acknowledged the recovery divers will be on a better gas than you so you're probably right - minimal (but not zero) risk to them to conduct a search. But I don't think you want your loved ones having to live with the results - burying you early or having to wipe your bottom for the rest of your life. That seems kinda shortsighted or selfish. You probably don't think like that but it's a starkly real possibility if something goes wrong.

Winning here isn't about me or any of us that dive Trimix but about you being the best diver you can be and I just don't think this defense of diving deep on air is the best you've got. Making adjustments isn't losing a stupid internet battle - it's you becoming a better diver.

I wish you the best of luck in your journey.

 

[Boarderguy]

@Boarderguy

It seems you’ve become entrenched to defend a piece of terrain and that no amount of logic, physiological studies and the experiences of more seasoned divers are sufficient to alter your penchant for and defense of deep air.

The dive objectives (topography, sites, etc) you’ve listed seem pretty unremarkable. While I understand the satisfaction we get from following a process and developing proficiency with procedures, I think seasoned technical divers are going to harness them to worthwhile objectives. TBH, it sounds like you’re going deep simply for the sake of going deep and it makes me curious what your highest level of training is. That isn’t intended to "weenie measure" or "pull rank" but rather to highlight that it's wise for us to check ourselves to ensure our enthusiasm doesn't exceed our formal training. Just because I'm reliably lethal with a pistol, can speak fluently enough to convince native speakers that my family is from the target area and I can blend in doesn't mean I have everything I need to just boldly infiltrate and operate as a singleton in a hostile, denied area of operations. The conditions for mission success and an uncomplicated exfiltration are much bigger than a few individual skills and a tall glass of confidence.

I echo what @Nick_Radov said and encourage you to think more broadly about your employment situation. We all lack the necessary funding for our biggest ambitions but that shouldn't be justification to "just go on and do it anyway". You mentioned that in five years you’ll be on a CCR unit and breathing mixed gas. Why not start seriously pursuing an adjustment to your employment situation to take slack out of the timeline so you can get on with the current passion for depth?

If there simply isn’t any flexibility to find more lucrative employment to afford better gas, then wouldn’t better judgment lead you to conclude, “I’ll wait until I get my RB to do these dives.”? There’s still plenty of awesome diving to be done, especially because you have a DPV. I’m blessed to dive Trimix every month if I want but some of my best dives have been at 1-2 ATMs. I challenge any hypoxic Trimix diver to assert that his joy at 90m is more valuable or virtuous than my joy at 9m.

I think it's a good idea to review your life insurance coverage and to check the exclusionary policies. It could be your wife makes more money than you but I’d bargain that she’s still depending on you being there into old age. At the depths you’re working towards, if something goes wrong, it’s likely to spiral downward in a hurry. It sounds like you've already acknowledged the recovery divers will be on a better gas than you so you're probably right - minimal (but not zero) risk to them to conduct a search. But I don't think you want your loved ones having to live with the results - burying you early or having to wipe your bottom for the rest of your life. That seems kinda shortsighted or selfish. You probably don't think like that but it's a starkly real possibility if something goes wrong.

Winning here isn't about me or any of us that dive Trimix but about you being the best diver you can be and I just don't think this defense of diving deep on air is the best you've got. Making adjustments isn't losing a stupid internet battle - it's you becoming a better diver.

I wish you the best of luck in your journey.

Lots to unpack and short on time.

I like to see the structures at that depth where the critters are less bothered and more apt to just be there. I like the clarity of the water below the summer bloom. I like the aspect of being where 99% of divers in our area won't ever be.

I dislike so many aspects of the "this is the only way" crowd that I'm not going entertain it. It's stupid to be that arrogant and self righteous when there are multiple proven ways to accomplish similar goals.

My employment is fine. We have a nearly 200k household income but we support our future with a lot of it. $200 ish for a dive is stupid when it can be accomplished for $15.

I said I might go CCR in the next 5years or so. They still scare me because I've seen a lot of accidents on them. I've last a dive friend who was extremely experienced on them. They're expensive and living in WA is getting more expensive. 1 kid in college, another heading that way in 3. Their future and expenses come first. That's part of why I drive a 20 year old truck and buy used equipment.

I just recently got AOW, DPV, and nitrox to make the dive ops happy when I go on boats. I've been diving since 2000 as an OW going wherever and to whatever depth the dive called for. My formal training consists of those above, but I've done a lot of informal with tech instructor acquaintances amd tech friends. The information is readily available to those who seek it out. I'm just the type that refuses to pay the cert agencies unless I have to.

I enjoy shallower dives in the winter because we have great visibility, but I just don't bother with them in the summer. The summer algae bloom means surface to about 70 is a whale snot shıt show and it improves slightly down at 100. The majority of sites I frequent don't offer much that I want to see during the summer at those depths. My twinsets give me hours of time and I generally do deco on back gas unless I'm starting to get cold. Then I pull my 50% reg and breath down the 40 to clear a bit faster. Warm and/or clear water offer different perspectives and opportunities than Salish Sea and it's low flow environments.

My DPV has opened up a lot of different sites and structures that were previously out of reach with an improved safety factor. Our current here can rip to the point your fining will at full speed (blank tip) just to make progress. I've done quick a few deco stops on trigger just to hold position. My scoot is part of my kit every dive.

My will is written, my post accident life expectancy is understood, and I've lived/experienced far more tramatic and dangerous situations while I was deployed. Life comes with risk unless you sit inside contemplating what could go wrong and then you miss out on it. Like I've said over and over and over again here, trimix is great for whoever chooses to use it, but it's not for me right now. Maybe later, maybe never. Who knows, I might get bored of diving deep and build a camera system to look at the lumpies in 20fsw under the kelp leaves. I might focus on my other expensive hobbies like golf with my son and wife or riding quads with the boy. Things we don't get to go often due to other life constraints. Or, I might use the time available to me while they're busy and go look at what I like in the depths.

 

[rddvet]

I've never had anyone question my use of a snorkel on any dive. I would feel something is missing if my snorkel is not there with me.

I will see if I can find it, but there's a video of a "tech diver" who always had a snorkel with him and there is video of him doing a simulated OOA where his long hose got stuck in the snorkel and in the attempt to fix it (poorly by rushing) he pulled his mask off his face enough to flood it. Have that happen at 60m on air when your buddy really needs it while you're "not narced" and let us know how it goes.

 

[eightytwenty]

I will see if I can find it, but there's a video of a "tech diver" who always had a snorkel with him and there is video of him doing a simulated OOA where his long hose got stuck in the snorkel and in the attempt to fix it (poorly by rushing) he pulled his mask off his face enough to flood it. Have that happen at 60m on air when your buddy really needs it while you're "not narced" and let us know how it goes.

I was on a boat once with a guy who had a long hose and a snorkel. When I mentioned the possibility of the hose snagging the snorkel and pulling his mask off during a gas share, he just responded, "I know, it's SO annoying."

 

[flymolo]

I’m starting to think the person describing an entire global community of divers as arrogant and self righteous might not be that self aware…

 

[Boarderguy]

I’m starting to think the person describing an entire global community of divers as arrogant and self righteous might not be that self aware…

Dive and let dive is out of reach for many in that community while also using guidelines for confined environment diving in open water.

THIS IS THE ONLY WAY, NARF!

You guys amuse me with your incessant braying about things you(most) have only only a theoretical understanding of.

 

[flymolo]

Dive and let dive is out of reach for many in that community while also using guidelines for confined environment diving in open water.

THIS IS THE ONLY WAY, NARF!

You guys amuse me with your incessant braying about things you(most) have only only a theoretical understanding of.

Seems like you have a terrible sense of humor as well