An age-old question: ways to 60m.

[Blackcrusader]

Correct gas selection is one part of that

Correct gas is the one I can put in my lungs to keep me alive on my dives.
This was all covered in my proper training courses.

 

[lostsheep]

It's sad to see some of the "old timers" who are still innumerate and unclear on the basics. Aggregate odds are rather meaningless when you can take out the risk factors. It's like with driving. The death rates look high over the whole USA. But if you don't drive drunk or sleepy or distracted, don't ride a motorcycle, buy a car with top safety ratings, and keep it properly maintained then the aggregate odds become irrelevant to your personal risk level.

Stop with the car comparisons.

You can make zero mistakes driving, do all the mitigation you want, and some random ******* can come along and take you out.

I suspect almost everyone here knows someone who has been killed in a car accident and I bet almost everyone here has been involved in an accident that wasn’t their fault.

 

[flymolo]

You are taking what I wrote out of context. That statistics does not evaluate any gas selection, your odds of getting killed is significantly increased at the moment you chose tec diving or ccr. If you understood what is taught to you, you would know this.
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My argument is that you are already driving drunk when you took up CCR diving because you increased your rate/probability of fatality.

padi tecrec is an absolute joke it's hilarious to me that you would unironically post that

 

[crofrog]

You can make zero mistakes driving, do all the mitigation you want, and some random ******* can come along and take you out.

Same as anything else in life...

You can do everything right and get out of the water badly bent, or with a AGE, or have an IPE when you descend, or maybe it's just not your day and some ******* shark comes along and bites you.

There are always going to be residual risks that are related to the objective hazards.

Objective hazards are a natural part of the environment. They cannot be eliminated, and one must either:

• Not go into the environment where they exist, or
• Adhere to a procedure where safety from the hazard is assured.

Gas density and narcosis are objective hazards of breathing compressed gas under pressures, you're options are to not go in the environment or mitigate / eliminate the risk through correct gas selection.

Same as cave diving, no one is arguing for going cave diving without the right equipment and training, but people are fine taking the wrong equipment deep in the ocean because their perception of the risk is that it is inconsequential, or saying f it I can go to 60m with only AOW training. You can get away with cave diving on a single tank for a long time too...

 

[scubaozy]

It's hilarious that you think a slide from some random bottom-of-the-barrel training agency run by has-beens and never-has-beens strengthens your point. It's pontificating clowns like that who who make tech diving dangerous in the first place because they're presuming to teach complex subjects when they aren't even clear on the basics themselves. If you want anyone here to take you seriously you'll have to come up with something more convincing.

You insulted the people writing the text but you did not state whether the statement is right or wrong, or why it is right or wrong.
If you want me to take you serious, use arguments, facts, not insults and evasion. Do you not agree technical diving, specifically ccr diving is more risky than rec diving?

 

[jborg]

Do you not agree technical diving, specifically ccr diving is more risky than rec diving?

All other things being equal, a deeper and more complex dive will of course typically be riskier. That's why the other things are generally not kept equal -- you use better and more resilient/redundant equipment, stricter protocols including those for gas choices, etc.

As for CCR I don't know, I don't dive one, but if the comparison is a deep, complex dive on CCR vs a shallow reef dive on OC, I'm sure the statistics indicate that the shallow OC dive is less risky. Is that the CCR being the problem though? Hard to say. I don't hear of a lot of CCR deaths that were on trivial dives where the accident could have been avoided by using a single AL80 of air instead.

 

[tursiops]

We feel comfortable because we have ways of taking virtually all of the risk out, to the extent that driving to the dive site is the deadliest part. Correct gas selection is one part of that but there are other aspects that go beyond what can be explained in a forum post. This is all covered in proper training courses.

Translation: We are better than the rest of you, but I refuse to explain it further. Spend the money on the Kool-Aid, like we did.

 

[Allen-1]

Translation: We are better than the rest of you, but I refuse to explain it further. Spend the money on the Kool-Aid, like we did.

oh this is awesome. @tursiops - I did not know you had a sense of humor.

 

[crofrog]

Translation: We are better than the rest of you, but I refuse to explain it further. Spend the money on the Kool-Aid, like we did.

Someone’s projecting again…

 

[Kay Dee]

When people denounce deep air diving today more than 25 years ago, I don't think it's because people got more risk averse. It's rather that back then we didn't know better, had a few misconceptions about adaptation to nitrogen narcosis. But we know more about it today, and we have more accident reports and are more aware of statistical effects (people are really bad at dealing with small but severe risks, survivorship bias, embarassing near misses are underreported, ...).

Gotta disagree (again) about your "didnt know any better". I certainly didn't know what I know now, but in 2000 I had been mixed gas diving 8 years and rebreather diving five, so I knew 'enough' to keep myself 'out of trouble'. Now I know even more, so am even more able / qualified to evaluate the risks.

And I gotta also say, that if anyone is deep OC diving (air or gas) and you have a problem with overbreathing your reg/s or gas density, then they must really really be second rate regs. In all my days, while I have overbreathed my CCR, I have never ever overbreathed an OC reg, never, and I have dived the world over on OC in a myriad of conditions (admittedly I used at various time top of the line Poseidon, Apeks and Scubapro). Again just saying, from personal experience.