An age-old question: ways to 60m.

[Blackcrusader]

There is no need to train the human body and mind for deep air. Just use the correct mix. No problem.

Correct. Training for deep diving using the correct mix is not difficullt. 21% seems to be the correct mix for many. Of course helps if you are deco trained as well. I was deco trained in the 80's and yes I realize it's not the 80's anymore when I was in my 20's and now I'm in my 60's. In the 80's we didnt have dive computers or spgs just tables and a dive watch, we brought extra tanks if needed. We didnt have nitrox either. At least now we have nice DC's like my Perdix which has a lot of features that I needed to study and learn about. Gradient Factors and SurfFG GF99 etc. I meet a lot of divers with a DC and they really do not understand how it functions and what features it has. That is really unfortunate. I've had people believe I exceeded NDL on NDL dives because they do not know the settings for my Perdix.

I personally do not know any diver that has died on a dive. Some people have asked me what courses I would recomment for deep diving and I tell them about the TDI ANDP and extended range courses. I would not tell them to take the PADI Deep dive certificate.

It's good that you want people to learn about other gas mixes for deep dives. They are adults and can make their own informed decisions.

 

[Blackcrusader]

How are SAC rate discussions are relevant?

Well for planned deep deco dives one should be able to know how many liters of gas in your tank whatever size you use and how much you use. You plan SAC rate for an emergency and I use the SAC rate for the diver who has the higher sac rate. Dive times are limited to how much gas you need for the dive.

The OP @iho was saying he wants to do deep dives on wrecks. I would assume the dive boat is moored fairly close. If so I would like to see tanks on the anchor line in addition to what they bring on the dive.

Would Trimix be the best was to dive as he wants to do 25 dives a year to deep depths. Sure if he wants to spend the money on the courses and the gases.

At this time in my old age life I do not plan on doing any dives deeper than 50m. As the OP is in Malaysia I would recommend he look at BSAC Trimix courses if trimix is the way he wants to go.

Explorer Mixed Gas Diver (60m)

www.bsac.com

 

[Centrals]

So you think new divers are diving to 60m?

How much do you understand ignorance/stupidity?
I had came across of plenty of them(NEW divers) over the years. Nothing has changed.
Actually plenty of them are aspiring to go to 100m with a single tank.
You have not been diving long enough or travel further afield. Ignorant recognizes no frontier.

 

[Boarderguy]

I have zero respect for those that dive stupid crap and then advocate its' use to new divers.

Who's advocating for new divers to dive deep air? New divers often can barely put their teeth on let alone deal with 30+ min of deco.

Your respect, associated with your ignorant assumptions, mean less than the dog crap in my back yard.

 

[Centrals]

Correct. Training for deep diving using the correct mix is not difficullt. 21% seems to be the correct mix for many. Of course helps if you are deco trained as well. I was deco trained in the 80's and yes I realize it's not the 80's anymore when I was in my 20's and now I'm in my 60's. In the 80's we didnt have dive computers or spgs just tables and a dive watch, we brought extra tanks if needed. We didnt have nitrox either. At least now we have nice DC's like my Perdix which has a lot of features that I needed to study and learn about. Gradient Factors and SurfFG GF99 etc. I meet a lot of divers with a DC and they really do not understand how it functions and what features it has. That is really unfortunate. I've had people believe I exceeded NDL on NDL dives because they do not know the settings for my Perdix.

I personally do not know any diver that has died on a dive. Some people have asked me what courses I would recomment for deep diving and I tell them about the TDI ANDP and extended range courses. I would not tell them to take the PADI Deep dive certificate.

It's good that you want people to learn about other gas mixes for deep dives. They are adults and can make their own informed decisions.

Never heard PSAI narcosis management course. Who is Hal Watts?
Where have you been over last 25yrs in technical diving.
I bet you do not know the difference between hypoxic and hyperoxia(normoxic)! Look it up.

 

[nadwidny]

Who's advocating for new divers to dive deep air? New divers often can barely put their teeth on let alone deal with 30+ min of deco.

Your respect, associated with your ignorant assumptions, mean less than the dog crap in my back yard.

For farks sakes. There are 21 pages here with multiple instances of numpties advocating that the OP does deep air. And you were the first to jump in on it on post 2 or 3.

And clean up your back yard.

 

[Blackcrusader]

yep, thanks for reminder - checked TDI reqs for mixed gas ~50 dives on given CCR... about 2 years with my diving realistically...

So you are only doign 25 dives a year? And you want those 25 dives to be deep dives?
Are you only diving weekends and holidays? Are you already TDI ANDP Certifified or just understand the requirements to go Trmix?

 

[Blackcrusader]

For farks sakes. There are 21 pages here with multiple instances of numpties advocating that the OP does deep air. And you were the first to jump in on it on post 2 or 3.

There is nothing wrong with people telling others how they are diving and sharing their experiences.
You have your agenda to push a certain way to do deep dives. That's fine that is your perspective.
Trimix diving might be fine for those who can afford it on OC.

The OP isnt really doing enough diving to warrant the cost of CCR.

For me all I need is enough gas whatever the mix is. Yes all of us are numpties for not following your advice on how to do deep dives. Of course we can just ignore posts where people hyperventilate and are lacking in social graces no matter how good their intention is.
You start to sound like a cult member. Do it this way or not at all.

 

[Blackcrusader]

A relaxed diver without much movement will need approx. 30 watts , can then breathe very slowly,
and produces not much CO2 .

Describes the way I dive in no or little current dives. Even in fast currents and down currents I still try to be slow and calm. I tend not to fight currents too much. This drift dive was fun.

 

[old frogman]

Do I understand correctly that after TDI ANDP, there are two main ways to go deeper, down to 60 meters?

1. OC Trimix – Take a Trimix course (around 5 days), and then you're good to go. But each dive will cost you an extra ~$250 just for the helium.
2. CCR – Buy a CCR unit and complete MOD1, Helitrox, and Mixed Gas training (about 15 days total, spread out over time). After that, you're free to dive, and each dive costs around $50 for consumables.

Is that correct?

P.S.
I know about Extended range but I am not fill comfortable on air down to 50m....

If your depth limit is 60 metres. Another option, which is perhaps outside the DIR modernist mindset, is to go semi-closed circuit rebreather (constant mass flow gas delivery to counterlung). Some navies still use them because they are purely mechanical, simple, reliable and no electronics or sensors to fail. Also they can be deployed into action very quickly (in comparison to ECCR). So reliable navy divers use them without the need for OC bailout gas. They reduce the helium cost by a factor of 4 (compared to OC). Navies dive them on nitrox down to 54 metres. With the addition of some helium in the mix you can dive them to 60 metres. Some notable military models are as follows:
US Westinghouse MK 6 capable to 60 metres with helium in the mix. Predecessor of UBA MK 15/16
US Viper SC
French La Spirotechnique CRABE.
Italian OMG Azimuth
German Draeger 5400/Dolphin

Some SCR rebreathers were available on the civilian market in the late 1990s however they fell out of favour due to the ego of technical divers who wanted the deepest rebreather available, even though many never took them deep.

However, if you want to go to 60 metres you can pick up a second hand serviceable ECCR send it to an appropriate diving engineering workshop and have it converted to SCR. The main gas delivery to the counterlung components are as follows: 1st stage valve, constant mass flow valve and manual addition valve. The adjustable overpressure valve is required for the counterlung to vent off excess exhaled gas. Fit it with 2 x 5 ltrs gas cylinders with your choice of premixed gas.

For 60 metres you need a jet that delivers about 20 ltrs/min flow.

Interested to know if anyone has successfully gone down this path.

I am sure this will severely challenge the DIR mindset.