American Bristol problems

[frogman62]

Mr. Sheldon - I saw some of your posts on scubaboard.com. I believe you can help me with some issues I am having with my Bristol Pneumatic Ltd air compressor. I bought the compressor of Ebay and tried unsuccessfully to hook it up this weekend. I am interested in using this compressor for paintball. I bought the compressor with the intent to be able to fill 4500 psi SCBA tanks and then cascade those tanks into 4500 psi paintball tanks.

I have 2 main problems at this point.

1. I don't have gauges, just 3 small cut off copper pieces of tubing. I was thinking of just taking out the fittings that the copper tubes are attached to and just put in little 1/8" paintball gauges. I was wondering if you knew the pressure the gauges should be able measure after the different stages. Also I have a bigger copper tube that is cut off that connects to what looks like some kind of pressure valve. I don't know what kind of gauge to put on this one or if it's a blow off valve of some kind.

2. I don't know how to wire the compressor. I have a couple wires that come off of what looks like some kind of oil valve. There is a 1/4" ball valve and a couple fittings on the cylinder (the yellow handle to the ball valve is visible in the attached picture). I was wondering, what this thing is and how do I wire it in the box. After I have that wired, how do I push power into the box to power the compressor motor. It seems like there is some kind of plug that should go on the bottom of the electrical box, but I don't have that plug, nor do I have any clue where to get it.

Some other things I'm wondering:
In the picture you can see a brownish flexible hose that connects what I think is the oil pressure cylinder with the ball valve and it looks like it connects to a stud on the bottom of the compressor stand. That stud does absolutely nothing. It's just mounted on the stand and sticks out about 2 inches. The hose was not mailed with the compressor, so I don't know what to use, and I don't know if what I see in the picture is the correct way to hook it up.

Last but not least, I don't know if there is a desiccant/purifier in this system. Hopefully you can tell from the pictures but I don't want to be pumping this high pressure tanks with moist air that is going to corrode my tanks.

I understand that I am asking for a considerable amount of information, but I can't find another outlet for this information. I've looked for manuals online and been unsuccessful. At this point you're my best lead on getting my problems solved. I am more than willing to compensate you for you consultation, and would like to purchase whatever accessories or additional parts may be required from your and your shop in return for your help.

Auction with additional pictures and description: Bristol pneumatic 5,000 psi air compressor High Press. - eBay (item 220238860912 end time May-29-08 21:53:24 PDT)

I appreciate any help you can offer. Let me know if you have any questions.

Email is the best way to reach me.

Wes
wesval@yahoo.com

 

[frogman62]

Wes,
I know these well as I purchased 4 from Government liquidation at $375 each.
1 was OK, 2nd and 3rd required extensive rework, (since I was an American Bristol dealer for 25 years, I had all the parts necessary but the cost would have been about $1600 and 75 hours labor), the 4th will require a 4th stage piston and liner at a cost of over $1000, if I can find one, since it only pumps to 3200psi.

Let's take each item:
1. You need four guage to be able to determine the compressor capability. The guages should have the range of: 1st to 160psi ( this stage should have a running pressure of 50 to 65psi), 2nd to 500psi ( this stage should have a running pressure of 275 to 350psi), 3rd to 1500psi ( this stage should have a running pressure of 800 to 900psi), and 4th to 6000 psi ( this is the delivered pressure and can be from 3000 to 6000psi). These guage should be oil filled and at least 2" in diameter and attached to the small tubing connecting to each stage and the output line of the compressor.

The 1/4 in copper line and the unit to which it is attached can be removed completely. A new manual valve must be installed in the 3rd stage moisture drain location . The compressor originally had a control section which connected into the electrical box which was not included in the compressor sale. The electrical lines to both unit mounted on the back of the compressor can be removed. The unit with the ball valve can be left alone at this time but take the wires off - they are just in the way. This was a low oil sensor and the ball valve is the drain line used when you change the oil in the compressor. The brown tube is only a drain line and someone stuck it on the stud to get it out of the way.

The compressor has a 5 hp 3 phase motor -- do you have three phase power or do have someplace that will let you connect to 3 phase to test the unit.
The motor lines are in the gray tube running from the electrical box to the motor.
Cut the lines from the connector in the electrical box-discard the connector and attach the lines to the motor for the 3phase power. Be sure they are connected to turn the compressor in the correct direction.
Do you have oil for the unit -- need at least one quart?

The compressor does not have any filter system but I have a used, 2 canister military style, 5000psi filter which I will sell you for $375, but lets not get ahead of ourselves. IF the compressor checks out OK, then we can proceed with setting it up for paintball.

I recommend you not spend much money before you know what is good and what need to be repaired. To start you are going to need to spend about $250 just to determine what works and what need repair.

I think I have answered all the questions you asked and now you can proceed one step at a time.

Jim Shelden
Frogman 62
Shelden Sporting Goods Inc.
316-992-0505

 

[Batt]

Thanks so much for your help, My $1100 idea to save money on paintball, turned into a very confusing project. With your reply above I feel much better about it, have also contacted Wes so we can discuss what works on the compressors.

I will try to run the compressor this weekend and see how it goes, if it doesn't work out I'd buy a used compressor from you.

Thanks!
Avi

 

[frogman62]

Batt, Don't get anxious yet-- you have several tasks to do before you give up. These compressors are really a workhorse when they run right. Once you determine whether it pumps and then how high it pumps then we can try some other things which could solve the problem with just labor on your part. Wes is in the same boat and a little labor may solve the problems. After you run the compressor , describe what is occurring and then we can proceed with no cost steps - just labor issues. IF you talk to Wes, refer this answer to him also
Jim Shelden

 

[frogman62]

Wes, See my response to Batt and also let me know what the results of the "running" produced. There are several labor fixes possible with out spending any cash that may resolve the problem. Let me know how I can help.
Jim Shelden

 

[airguy]

Frogman,

I have a 4S-24 purchased from auction a while back with a known bad 4th stage. This unit was in firefighter service with a gas Wisconsin drive until the 4th stage went south, then they bought a new Bauer unit. When I pulled the 4th stage, the piston looks to be in good shape - I'm sure the rings need to be replaced, and one of them is obviously broken. There is some light groove wear in the lower oil sections of the piston, but overall it's in serviceable condition with new rings. The cylinder is another story, there are a few spots in the bore where the chrome surface plating is broken off, which is (I'm sure) the reason the compressor was taken out of service.

So now I have two problems I'm hoping you can help me with.

1) - find a new (or serviceable used) cylinder/liner and a set of rings for the piston

2) - an assembly manual so I can perform a complete teardown of the rest of the unit to look for any other issues before putting back in service. I started to remove the stage below the 4th from the crankcase, but was met with resistance in trying to pull the cylinder off the piston. It appears the piston is captive in the cylinder? This is the first Bristol unit (and the first duplex unit) I have worked on, so I recognize that I need the manual to proceed further.

I sent you an email with my personal contact info.

Thanks!

 

[frogman62]

Airguy, Being able to find a servicable 4th stage head/liner will be difficult, Another place I know of which might be able to find one is American Airworks( or they might have a suggestion). I don't have a manual left -- it went with the last -24 I sold. The 3rd stage piston is larger on the top end than the bottom so you will have to open the crankcase and slide the connecting rod off the crankshaft to be able to remove the piston. I suggest looking at the cylinder to see if it is scored and if not, don't remove the 3rd stage - just bolt it back in place. Before you proceed with putting a huge amount of labor into the unit - better see if you can find a 4 th stage cylinder.
You might try to find a diver in the UK that would be willing to spend some time trying to find one in a salvage yard. It will be cheaper than trying to order a new one from someone here in the states. Good luck!
I also answered your direct email
Jim Shelden

 

[windyairman]

Pm Me
i have 4s24 manual
parts for 4th stage pistons liners & some new rings
also rebuilt full 4 stage S/H with valves &cylinder head in place

 

[Batt]

Hi Frogman62,

I just built a metal frame to support the 6.5HP gas engine above the Bristol compressor, and got a heavy-duty wheeled platform installed so I can move the contraption around. I was reading your reply above, and came up with some more questions. Hopefully tomorrow I'll get a v-belt and run the compressor.

1. You mentioned it will need a manual drain installed on third stage? Can you explain where that would be, I'd like use wrenches to open it and manually drain it, during testing. Will that just be a 1/2" NPT ball valve and plastic hose perhaps?

2. What kind of oil is needed, I have some synthetic air tool oil. You mentioned about 1 quart. Do I just fill it to bottom of the oil plug?

3. There are three 1/4" copper tubes on top , that you said can be removed. These look like they goto the 3 stages. Should I connect my three test gauges to these, to measure pressure in each stage? There are also three square metal plates on the compressor body with four allen key bolts, and a brass plug in the middle(photo below), which could be for a test gauge to be connected. But I'm not sure what size or kind of thread that is, maybe 1/4" wide. I will need some kind of adapters to connect test gauges. For now I was going to try a 1/8" good quality paintball gauge, or just connect my paintball regulator with 3" gauge to the compressor final output.

4. If you are looking at the flywheel side, to the left is a vertical brass cylinder approx 8.5" long. Could that be an air/oil filter? I disconnected the tubing on top top and it has a few drops of water in it. (photo below)

5. This 8.5" brass cylinder has a pipe on its bottom going to a "Skinner Electric valve" with wires(that used to lead to the control box), then to a short piece of copper tubing that's crimped shut. Is this piece important, or should I un-crimp it for testing?

Some photos are attached.

Thanks for your help again!

 

[frogman62]

Batt,
#1 picture, on the left side is the moisture trap between the 2nd and 3rd stage. There is a copper line coming from an L fitting and running to the rear of the compressor. That is where the drain valve should go. Remove that copper line and the drain valve on the other end and discard them, they will be of no use to you without the original control equipment. Install a small ball valve at that connection so you can drain the water from the condenser. That line connection is a 1/4 in NPT opening. Refer to question 4 -- this is the moisture trap I described above . replace the line on the top of this part. Refer to question 5 -- that is the part I said to remove and discard
2.Oil needed -- you can not use synthetic air tool oil. You need Mobile Jet II, Anderol 500 or Summitt DSL-100 and cost is about $16.00 a quart. You will need at least 1 qt to fill the compressor. In picture #1 there is a red oil plug showing behind the cooling coils. That is the oil fill location for the crankcase. Fill the compressor oil lever even with the top of this opening.
3. The 1/4 in tubing connects the cylinders together for air flow - do not remove them. Refer to picture 1 and 3. The tube you removed should be replaces as it carries air from the moisture chamber( discussed in #1) into stage 3 intake valve which is located just above the oil fill location.
Picture #2 is the square metal plates with 4 allan screws and a fitting in the center. Replace the screws and the cover in the center. These are the valve covers and you should not do anything to them at this time. If you take them off and break the seals you will be starting to spend big money.
picture #2 also shows one 1/8 in copper tube coiled above the exhaust valve of the 3 stage. This is one of the lines that you could put a test guage on to measure pressure(1500psi guage needed). It appears that this line is crimped on the end. If so, at this time don't worry about testing the pressure. Now find the other 2 - 1/8 in lines one should be between the flywheel and directly below the one in the picture and the other should be in the upper right corner of picture #2. For now just be shure they are crimped shut at the end of the tube. Do not remove them as we may need them later to measure interstage pressure.
Without a manual to show the components and operation, you are going to have a very difficult time getting this running and repairing anything. I will sell you a manual and 2 qts of oil and ship them to you for $55.00. You can send a money order and I ship the day I receive the check.
Jim Shelden
Shelden Sporting Goods Inc
1723 N Athenian
Wichita ,Ks 67203
316-992-0505