Air2 plus safe second

[scubastaci]

Still in dive classes, have my own BC. It is an older model ScubaPro Classic with the Air2 system. Had it serviced before class started and the Equip specialist says it is great! My husband has a new ScubaPro BC with the Air2 system. At class on Monday, we were talking with our instructor who has been diving for 40+ years and he has the Air2 plus a safe second. He actually had to use both this past year, so he was really glad that he had it.
My question is, does anyone else think that it is worth having the safe second installed right now? Does anyone else dive with this setup?

 

[AbyssalPlains]

That setup may make sense for an instructor, who has to be prepared for OOA situations with students, but for recreational diving, I would argue that having an octopus and an Air2 is confusing at best. I was practicing an OOA scenario once with a buddy who had an Air2 and she hadn't really gotten used to it, so she kept her primary in her mouth while trying to donate me her air2, which, obviously, didn't work at all. I believe that one should commit to one backup system and get used to that one, rather than following the Christmas tree principle, with lots of gadgets hanging around. Once I started using a pony bottle, I got rid of my octopus altogether, and I don't have an Air2 either. Have one backup, know where it is and overlearn its use, is my philosophy.

 

[24940]

Working instructors aren't diving with divers, they are diving with students. A better way to handle problems is to insure they don't happen. Proper planning, pressure checks at regular intervals and quality instruction should negate the need for such a configuration.

The downsides to such a configuration:

You will have an extra service charge for the extra reg.
The biggest plus I've seen for an AIRII is that it eliminates an extra hose. Aside from that, all I see are negatives. I don't consider the extra hose a problem.
You are adding a potential failure point.

AIRII type regs are hard breathing and don't function well as an inflator, especially when used in an OOA scenario.

It's a bad idea, imo.

 

[Hoosier]

Proper planning, pressure checks at regular intervals and quality instruction should negate the need for such a prejudice against Air 2!!!

 

[24940]

Hardly, but this isn't the topic of this thread.

If anyone thinks carrying three regs on a rec dive is a great idea, why stop at three? Four, five or six has to be even better, right?

 

[DA Aquamaster]

An Air 2 makes sense in terms of eliminating a hose and in terms of being used often.

1. The Air 2 requires that the diver donate the primary, but realistically in 2/3rds of real world OOA situations, the OOA diver mugs the donating diver for the primary anyway.

2. The diver knows exactly where it is as it gets used frequently on every dive. Octo or Air 2, divers ought to be taught to donate the primary to reduce confusion when it happens, and when it happens a surprised diver often has an easier time finding an Air 2 than an octo dangling around somewhere outside their field of vision.

3. And since it is used often on every dive in inflator mode (and is mounted on the divers torso) it does not get gunked up with silt, salt or other stuff like an octo will.

The down side is that an Air 2 requires a (minimal) amount of training and requires an emphasis on donating the primary.

In terms of using both an octo and Air 2, that does not make much sense as it just increases complexity, does not result in better streamlining through hose reduction and further confuses the "what do I donate" issue and does not fully resolve the crudded up when someone needs it real bad octo problem.

The only situation where an Air 2 and Octo may make some sense would be with a solo diver using independent doubles as it offers an alternate way to access the gas in one of the tanks in the event of a (very rare) second stage failure.

 

[Hoosier]

This subject has been covered so many times almost every month...


Based on what, you are arguing that Air2 is hard to breathe and doesn't function well as an inflator.

Another failure point? Is it from your experience or someone told you?

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Hardly, but this isn't the topic of this thread.

If anyone thinks carrying three regs on a rec dive is a great idea, why stop at three? Four, five or six has to be even better, right?

I like the concept of a bandoleer slung over each shoulder Mexican bandito style, with about 20 spare airs in each bandoleer.

This subject has been covered so many times almost every month...


Based on what, you are arguing that Air2 is hard to breathe and doesn't function well as an inflator.

Another failure point? Is it from your experience or someone told you?

It gets covered almost every Wednesday...wait...it IS Wednesday.

A properly tuned Air 2 is not all that hard to breathe as it is very similar internally to the R190.

And it it is an excellent balanced inflator with the same inflator guts as Scubapro's Balanced Inflator. It functions very well and can be easily used to dump air from the BC during ascent while breathing on it just by pushing out on the hose anywhere between the BC and the Air 2 to lenghten it and in the process activate the shoulder dump.

 

[24940]

This subject has been covered so many times almost every month...

Thought I recognized you.

Based on what, you are arguing that Air2 is hard to breathe and doesn't function well as an inflator.

Another failure point? Is it from your experience or someone told you?

It's basic math. Virtually every piece of gear is a potential failure point. Add another reg, another hose, another.... and you are adding another potential failure point.

Many of the AIRII type combos I've seen (Including the one I own) have the inflate and deflate on opposite sides and in direct alignment. I've seen more than a few divers depressing both at the same time.

I use the same reg for my secondary as I do for my primary. I'm not going to bother pulling up specs on one vs the other, but I don't think you will argue the AIRII breathes as easy as a high performance second stage.

 

[Hoosier]

To be fair, your basic math should be applied to both ways.

Based on your math,

Air 2 removes one additional hose. It must be less failure point.
Air 2 is an integrated design, so it adds a failure point.

So, it is even.... Am I right?

I thought we agreed that the proper training is a "must" on any gear configuration in the previous posts. So, the button confusion can't be a problem factor on Air 2 users after being taught and practiced properly. A diver must know their gear.

You are using the same reg for the primary and second? I am using the different regs for the primary and second. My seconds including Air2 aren't different with my primary ones that much, specially in the rec. range. I can breathe my Air 2 at 130ft without any issue... I can breathe my back up (R190 and R380) on my double sets without any issue as well. Actually, some agency recommends this NON-balanced 2nd stage as a back up because they believe that it is less failure point and easy to fix in UW. So, if you believe that Air2 is in the same league with the entry level stages like R190 and R380, do I choose a wrong back up?

Sure, it is totally another subject if it is appropriate to use the same second as the primary. Even in the tech diving community, the opinion varies.


You don't need to pull down your corrugated hose. I am using the rear dump valve while I am in horizontal trim (it is most ideal, isn't it?) The modern BCD has two or three pull dump valves on the BCD as well. So, you can choose whatever it works for you. In addition, once you have to use an Air 2 in UW, it is OOA situation. Why do you care about a reg. performance over depth? You are ascending, not descending. Even though I agree with your point that the entry stage including Air2 is an inferior to the high end, its performance is getting better as ascending.


One suggestion to the potential Air 2 users is to get a long primary hose (5ft). So, you donate a long hose and grab Air 2 like a double hose configuration on the tech diving. This is another perks on Air 2 users...

For the reference, Air 2 is popularly being used in RB community, too.


There is nothing wrong with Air2. Even though I have heard about a serious inflator failure made by the reputed brand (I also have it) though, I haven't heard and seen any accident report due to Air2 design. Air2 copy is manufactured by many other manufactures more and more. The market tells the demands.








Just my 2 bar...