air-sharing question

[utnapistim]

hi all,

I'm doing the rescue course at the moment and have a question for whoever had practical experience with real OOA situations:

What is the best approach when you're the air giver?
1. Detach your octopus and extend it to your buddy or
2. Stand in front of him (arms extended and all that) and wait for him to grab it from you him/herself.

Does it depent on each situation? If so, in what ways?
Does your buddy's panic (or distress) influence the situation?

During OW course I was tought the best would be the first one and during the resque course the instructor (different one) stressed you're much safer doing the second.


Thanks.

 

[jeckyll]

Couple of questions: Are you sure the octo is always going to be clipped where you last had it? What if it's dragging behind you?

Do you think you'll always be able to change your position in the water to allow an OOA diver to come to you? How will you react when they are freaked right out, OOA and grabbing the nearest Reg to them (perhaps the one in your mouth)?

 

[neil]

I don't think either technique is intrinsically safer than the other.
The OOA diver will do what he is trained and practiced to do. If they are your buddy it behooves you to practice together so there's no confusion. The actual techinique is less important than the practice of it. Even an awkward procedure can run smoothly if done often enough.
Panic will change things, and the donor needs to be ready if the primary reg is grabbed. You can practice this too.

 

[Jafo123]

Also do you dive with a octo or a +2. If your diving with a +2 you hand them your primary 2nd stage rightside up and you breath off the +2. If your diving with a octo either way is good.

 

[robcap]

Real experience 1: panicked diver, rushed to me and took my regulator out of my mouth. I detached the octopus and breathed from it. Then we exchanged regulators, but next day I went and buy a longer hose. Please be sure your octopus is "there" ready to be used and easily detacheable.
Real experience 1: out of air diver. No sign of panic. Much easier to handle. I extended the ocopus to him. We started a slow ascent, safety stop. Voila'.

You have to be ready to handle very different situations, and judge how to behave. Think first (quickly). Then act. Be calm.

ciao

 

[spectrum]

Yea it really depends.

Your alternate needs to be readilly accessible and trusted. It's good to use it on each dive. Keep it restrained somewhere.

Be prepared to have yours snatched from your mouth, with or without the luxury of a last big breath. Remember you're in a 3 dimensional enviornment and the distressed diver could come from anywhere. If moods allow I'd get my primary back after stabilizng the situation if moods allow. The hose lengths and orientations will be best for both that way.

As to your original question of how to present your alternate. I'm heading for thier mouth but if they intercept it I'll hand it off since they can coordinate getting it in better than I.

So far this is just theorhetical & drills for me.

I did have a buddy go OOA on me and somhow much to my chagrin I didn't recognize his OOA signal. I don't know if I was distracted, never expecting it or he wasn't in my field of view the way he thought he was. He never went for either of my seconds and did a CESA from 20 feet or so. I'm thinking he went fro OOA to an asend signal and having not processed the first signal thought he wanted to go up for a bearings check. My point here is to pay attention.

Pete

 

[D_B]

1. Detach your octopus and extend it to your buddy

That way, even if he does grab the reg out of your mouth ... you have a reg in your hand ... you know where it is ... gives him confidence in that he see's that your paying attention to him, can see what he needs

Practice with your buddy
Go over any equipment differences particular to your rig if diving with others
... I have an air2
I got a longer hose (42") for my primary because of the need/difficulty in giving the OOA buddy my primary when the hose was shorter

DB

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I have had three OOA divers share air with me over the last 20 years. Two of the three were near panic situations where the diver basically mugged me for my primary. Based on conversations with others, I think that is probably a pretty normal ratio. In light of that, training divers to donate their octo makes little sense.

Based on my experience, I am a big believer in donating your primary. It has several advantages:

1. It ensures that the OOA is getting a fully functioning reguator that is already pre-adjusted for good breathing performance.

2. You are always going to be more familiar with the location of your octo than your buddy and will have more time to look for it if it has wandered off. (I think the ease in getting the primary verus the octo for a time pressed OOA buddy is the reason for the large percentage of OOA muggings.)

3. Training to donate the primary brings your training in line with the situations you will encounter most of the time in the real world. Training for real world conditions always makes more sense.

4. When you get mugged, the procedure is the same - you access your octo - and it is a lot less surprising and confusing than if you expected the buddy to go through the totally unrealistic and impractical air-share ettiquette that you only see in training.

I am an even bigger believer in using a long hosed primary regulator. When combined with a long hose (5 to 7 foot), dontating the primary allows near normal swimming and ascent and makes it much easier to share air. Do it that way just once, and you will never go back to a short hose.

I think it's a shame that most agencies and instructors are unwilling to update either their procedures or their equipment with regard to air sharing given the benefits of both donating the primary and using a long hosed primary.

 

[Scuba_Steve]

I think it's a shame that most agencies and instructors are unwilling to update either their procedures or their equipment with regard to air sharing given the benefits of both donating the primary and using a long hosed primary.

Amen brother.

There's nothing more embarrasing than watching an Instructor or CD perform an OOA demonstration, and you're sitting (kneeling) there, knowing full well you could have swam 15ft to the OOA victim and donate the proper way, before the guy even finds his octo.

Good grief, WT.F is with that.

And then you get told to un-bungie 'cause that's not how we do it LOL

 

[Chad Carney]

In 33+ years I've only had one OOA diver actually attempt to share air.

A small young woman appeared beside me, but didn't signal. Her huge eyes told the whole story. I gave her my safe second stage, per NASDS procedure of the time, and then she dug her nails into my arms with amazing strength. In less than a minute her eyes shrunk back to normal size and we easily ascended.

Another diver once turned to me, showed his pegged air gauge and the thumbs up as he took off from about 75'. He was a new employee, with suppossed great experience, and this was our first dive together. The funny thing was, he continued to watch as I caught up and give him my octo. He never panicked.

The other OOA divers I've seen, while diving in groups, also made no attempts to share air despite multiple divers close by. They just blasted off. Instinct seems to often dominate training in the real world.

I don't believe any one technique or equipment arrangement is right for everyone. I prefer an alternate inflation regulator for my kind of diving. I also prefer a bailout system for deeper dives.

Chad