Air share

[Jafo19D]

I'd be curious what the hand signal you used was and if she checked your SPG before handing over her octo.

I know she checked my SPG after I told her how much I had but I can’t remember the hand signal for her telling me to take her octo. I
Imagine I got the clue when she handed it to me.

 

[Blackcrusader]

Because your buddy is supposed to be carrying air for you too, in case you have a problem.

My buddy had air he just wasn't using it Also at 15m depth it's hardly an issue to reach the surface safely if we were both low on air and I am talking about having 40 bar or more

 

[ginti]

I Imagine I got the clue when she handed it to me.

That is exactly what happened to me, in both cases (when I received and when I donated)

 

[Angelo Farina]

You tank valve hit the roof several times and shut off the gas supply.
It was still a "roll off" albeit completely different from that caused by the forward movement of the diver.

It must be said that, for a reason I do not know, after opening that valve you could turn it by just slightly more than a complete turn. So it did not take many hits on the rocks to close it entirely.
Furthermore, at the time, we were taught to never "hard open" the valve up to a hard lock, because this makes it difficult to close it, and to understand if the valve is already closed. So the rule was to open it entirely, and then to turn it back slightly, a quarter of a turn. So in practice that valve did need just 3/4 of a turn for closing completely!

 

[SlugLife]

I've never had to share air outside a classroom, but I'm a relatively new diver and mostly done solo.

The OP brings up a point that has been discussed before on SB, will a diver grab the reg out of their buddy’s mouth or follow their training

I'm pretty sure I've heard first-hand accounts of someone pulling a regulator out of a dive-buddy's mouth. I get the sense that it's somewhat rare.

There does seem to be a steady shift away from primary-donate, even if the agencies still teach primary-donate. Since covid, I noticed a few classes mention doing secondary-donate instead for covid-reasons. A number of people I watch on YouTube, like Alec Peirce are vocally against primary-donate. Why take a perfectly good regulator out of your mouth, when you can offer up your brightly-colored secondary. If you don't use regulator-retainers, you might even have difficulty finding your own secondary and get tangled up.

We were at about 100 feet/30 m down on the Duane in the Florida Keys and way far away from our descent/ascent line. He finally showed me his gauge which showed 200 psi. I still had 2200 psi.

Wow, what a terrible dive-buddy. Probably one of the worst I've heard, because that wasn't an accidental emergency, he deliberately waited.

I think continue a dive while air sharing is dangerous. But I understand, that a DM might feel the pressure to continue the dive. it's a difficult topic. I am interested in other opinions

I mostly agree. It depends on context.

For example, if we assume a non-emergency and just air-sharing to extend a dive, it's maybe ok. For example, lets say Lets say 2200 psi and 900 psi, where you'd want 650 to budget a safety stop and surface with 500 remaining. That's also assuming good visibility and no other risks. You could extend the dive with air-sharing that way. Just watch the air and be VERY aware of hazards. There may still be some other increased risks, for example, entanglement hazards, or one diver gets spooked.

Personally, I silo dive a lot, so if it's an insta-buddy or stranger their bad air-management isn't my problem, unless it's an emergency. So I'd tell them to surface and continue on my way. If there is an equipment failure or similar emergency, the dive is called, even if I had 3200 psi.

It would have to be a close buddy or friend for me to even consider donating air in a non-emergency and dragging them around like a puppy.

 

[ginti]

There does seem to be a steady shift away from primary-donate, even if the agencies still teach primary-donate. Since covid, I noticed a few classes mention doing secondary-donate instead for covid-reasons. A number of people I watch on YouTube, like Alec Peirce are vocally against primary-donate.

It seems to me it is the other way around: there is a shift towards primary donation, but it is slow. When I started diving, no recreational diver know anything about the long hose, they didn't even know about its existence. Nowadays, at least instructors know what it is.

Why take a perfectly good regulator out of your mouth, when you can offer up your brightly-colored secondary. If you don't use regulator-retainers, you might even have difficulty finding your own secondary and get tangled up.

I am not sure if I understand correctly what you said... do you mean that primary donation can be risky?

Wow, what a terrible dive-buddy. Probably one of the worst I've heard, because that wasn't an accidental emergency, he deliberately waited.

I actually understood it was not deliberate...

 

[Ayisha]

...I actually understood it was not deliberate...

Oh no, it was deliberate. He kept checking my consumption and calculated when to tell me his remaining pressure (200 psi - if it was accurate) when I had 2200 psi left and we were at 100 feet/30 m down and far from our ascent line.

I've written the rest of the story in the past. I knew something was up when he kept looking at my computer and his and he wouldn't show me his. I finally switched sides to look, and he grabbed it back before I could see it, and he slapped my hand. So I slapped his hand back. Shortly after that, he showed me it was at 200 psi.

He had asked to dive with me, and no, I didn't dive with him after that. My buddy and I happily did the rest of the dives together.

 

[Esprise Me]

As a new diver on a day boat to Catalina, I had an instabuddy suddenly give me the OOA signal. We had just started our ascent from 70 feet and had communicated that we each had over 1,000 psi left, but all of a sudden her reg wasn't delivering. We were both in rental gear; I was trying out this newfangled backplate and wing deal I'd heard so much about, but I still had a standard reg with a short yellow hose and octo; I'd stuffed the hose through my left shoulder D ring. That was very effective for keeping it in place; much more so than those little rubber snorkel keepers or the dedicated hose pockets on some jacket BCDs. As it turned out, it was a little more secure than I would've liked. My buddy slashed a hand across her throat and immediately grabbed my octo. (She was visiting from the Netherlands, if that informs your speculation about her training.) But it didn't want to come out. I went to help pull it out. It seemed to take forever, though it was probably only two seconds. I was already removing the reg from my mouth to give to her when the octo popped free. We made a relatively controlled ascent, skipping the safety stop. On the surface, her SPG again/still(?) showed 1,000 psi, and she was able to breathe from her reg again. We never did figure out exactly what happened.

Shortly after that I bought a reg set up with a long hose and necklaced second. Although I haven't had another incident, I think this is a much better system for getting air to the person who needs it without delay. My regular buddy and I practice air shares somewhat regularly, mainly to stay sharp on the skill in case we need it, but sometimes to extend our safety stop. He's a tall guy and I'm a woman, so while his SAC rate is good, mine is better. While he always has plenty of gas to make it to the surface, sometimes we prefer to poke around in the shallows sharing my remaining gas instead of ending the dive with my tank still half-full. The long hose makes that easy and fun.

 

[Bob DBF]

There does seem to be a steady shift away from primary-donate, even if the agencies still teach primary-donate.

I guess that depends on when you want to start looking or how you were trained. Scuba diving started with primary donate, because there was only one secondary. Buddy breathing was still taught in the early '80's as a second second stage was catching on. In 1979 the Air 2 was introduced by ScubaPro and all its generations and all other inflator/second stage clones use primary donate. Secondary donate became standard and taught because they were cheaper and more prevelent than the air2. As a note, BSAC changed to secondary take after accident analysis.

The long hose and bungeed backup is moving from tech into rec, mostly on Scubaboard, and is probably much more rare in rec diving than the Air 2 and its clones. The training will not change from secondary donate because it will remain the most used configuration for the foreseeable future, and the configuration dictates the procedure

Personally, I silo dive a lot, so if it's an insta-buddy or stranger their bad air-management isn't my problem, unless it's an emergency. So I'd tell them to surface and continue on my way.

And hope they make it back to shore or the boat. When one buddy dives, the other diver's problems are your problem, otherwise you are the bad buddy. I am normally a solo diver, however, when buddy diving I take it seriously. I will put my buddy back on the shore, or boat, and go solo 'cause that's how I was taught, but you can go the accidents forum and read about those that never made it back alone and perhaps it will change your mind.

 

[ginti]

Oh no, it was deliberate. He kept checking my consumption and calculated when to tell me his remaining pressure (200 psi - if it was accurate) when I had 2200 psi left and we were at 100 feet and far from our ascent line.

I've written the rest of the story in the past. I knew something was up when he kept looking at my computer and his and he wouldn't show me his. I finally switched sides to look, and he grabbed it back before I could see it, and he slapped my hand. So I slapped his hand back. Shortly after that, he showed me it was at 200 psi.

He had asked to dive with me, and no, I didn't dive with him after that. My buddy and I happily did the rest of the dives together.

I am speechless...