Aggressor II to Galapagos - DO NOT GO ON IT.
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HBO MD
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I appreciate the author of the original thread bringing this to the board. Clearly there are going to be a lot of different opinions and levels of tolerance for the issues raised. But professionalism is the very least that is not only expected, but due the guests of a live aboard or any tourist enterprise.
Being a small "floating hotel" it places people of disparate backgrounds in very close quarters. Add to that the expectations initiated by the hype and photo shopped images of a glossy brochure or entertaining web site, the extremely high cost, and people's expectations are justifiably high.For example, this is part of the blurb from the Aggressor web site regarding the owners ambitions/commitments, "...to make it a more intimate relationship. Wayne is committed to great customer service providing you with the Ultimate diving aboard every Aggressor Fleet yacht. From the reservation team, to the diving, to the accommodations and ships crew you will experience first class above, adventure below."
And this from their president, "We want to assure our guests that we will continue to offer luxury diving and a land visit program and we will continue our relentless effort in preserving the Galapagos marine life."
Do people honestly think that while reading this from behind their desk looking out upon a snow covered, horrible New England winter that that won't conjure up visions of a diving holiday paradise?
As to the dive escorts not being true dive masters, I think the passengers were truly fortunate that a client was not hurt, even accidentally. It would appear that they would have struggled to cope with anything out of the ordinary, and I'm sure someone would have been at great risk. Had the passengers known from the outset, I wonder if they would have signed the liability waivers shoved in front of their faces.
Further, a dive tour operator must anticipate that divers of differing expertise present themselves, whether appropriate or not. Who's duty, then is it to assist these divers and keep them out of danger? I would say it is primarily the divers responsibility. However, my question is, does that relinquish the dive master of any responsibility at all? This may even mean not allowing the diver to get in the water if their lack of expertise places the group in danger.This is compounded by a live aboard where you just can't get off the boat and head to the resort, and the diver may have been bloody foolish to put him/herself in this position.
The majority of divers are very devoted to preservation and rightly so. The potential for injury to the wildlife due to recklessness or carelessness just isn't acceptable. Had it occurred during stormy weather, low viz situations during which the appropriate caution was taken, I would imagine that the original complaint wouldn't have been present. If you don't know how to handle the equipment, don't use the damn thing.
I'm surprised that no one from the Aggressor fleet has responded to this thread. In fact, I find it very disappointing when people encounter an indifferent and arrogant vendor, be it land based or live aboard, who is delighted to accept people's money, but not address valid concerns. Sounds more like an insurance agent. That the owner responded in a less than civil manner, attempting to silence the author is a reflection on the owner's lack of professionalism, and the integrity of the author, (no, I don't know him). At least with the advent of the internet we can discuss these things openly and bring concerns forward that would not previously have been heard, except in dive clubs, and potentially saving some divers from being ripped off, disappointed or uninformed before they head across the world. The old dive magazines had reps paid to assess such live aboards and were treated like royalty, preventing any real objective review being made.
Thanks for the civilized discussion and bringing these concerns to light.
Being a small "floating hotel" it places people of disparate backgrounds in very close quarters. Add to that the expectations initiated by the hype and photo shopped images of a glossy brochure or entertaining web site, the extremely high cost, and people's expectations are justifiably high.For example, this is part of the blurb from the Aggressor web site regarding the owners ambitions/commitments, "...to make it a more intimate relationship. Wayne is committed to great customer service providing you with the Ultimate diving aboard every Aggressor Fleet yacht. From the reservation team, to the diving, to the accommodations and ships crew you will experience first class above, adventure below."
And this from their president, "We want to assure our guests that we will continue to offer luxury diving and a land visit program and we will continue our relentless effort in preserving the Galapagos marine life."
Do people honestly think that while reading this from behind their desk looking out upon a snow covered, horrible New England winter that that won't conjure up visions of a diving holiday paradise?
As to the dive escorts not being true dive masters, I think the passengers were truly fortunate that a client was not hurt, even accidentally. It would appear that they would have struggled to cope with anything out of the ordinary, and I'm sure someone would have been at great risk. Had the passengers known from the outset, I wonder if they would have signed the liability waivers shoved in front of their faces.
Further, a dive tour operator must anticipate that divers of differing expertise present themselves, whether appropriate or not. Who's duty, then is it to assist these divers and keep them out of danger? I would say it is primarily the divers responsibility. However, my question is, does that relinquish the dive master of any responsibility at all? This may even mean not allowing the diver to get in the water if their lack of expertise places the group in danger.This is compounded by a live aboard where you just can't get off the boat and head to the resort, and the diver may have been bloody foolish to put him/herself in this position.
The majority of divers are very devoted to preservation and rightly so. The potential for injury to the wildlife due to recklessness or carelessness just isn't acceptable. Had it occurred during stormy weather, low viz situations during which the appropriate caution was taken, I would imagine that the original complaint wouldn't have been present. If you don't know how to handle the equipment, don't use the damn thing.
I'm surprised that no one from the Aggressor fleet has responded to this thread. In fact, I find it very disappointing when people encounter an indifferent and arrogant vendor, be it land based or live aboard, who is delighted to accept people's money, but not address valid concerns. Sounds more like an insurance agent. That the owner responded in a less than civil manner, attempting to silence the author is a reflection on the owner's lack of professionalism, and the integrity of the author, (no, I don't know him). At least with the advent of the internet we can discuss these things openly and bring concerns forward that would not previously have been heard, except in dive clubs, and potentially saving some divers from being ripped off, disappointed or uninformed before they head across the world. The old dive magazines had reps paid to assess such live aboards and were treated like royalty, preventing any real objective review being made.
Thanks for the civilized discussion and bringing these concerns to light.
A wet bed sucks no matter what. You shouldn't have that whether you are on a "basic" or "luxury" liveaboard and I would expect compensation if it wasn't corrected after the 1st complaint.
I've been on 4 liveaboards, so I am no liveaboard expert. However, in those 4 trips, I'd say they were more similar than different.
Has anyone been on more than one liveaboard trip in the Galapagos ? I wonder if there would be a big difference on the Deep Blue or Peter Hughes ?
It is important to note the crew member/guide the OP was complaining about no longer works for Aggressor.
I've been on 4 liveaboards, so I am no liveaboard expert. However, in those 4 trips, I'd say they were more similar than different.
Has anyone been on more than one liveaboard trip in the Galapagos ? I wonder if there would be a big difference on the Deep Blue or Peter Hughes ?
It is important to note the crew member/guide the OP was complaining about no longer works for Aggressor.
Do you have any basis for these comments besides this one post? While I've butted heads with the DM's personalities in Ecuador and other Latin American countries, where, after all, the term "macho" was invented, the competency of the DMs aboard the two Galapagos vessels I've traveled on was never at issue. They routinely dive in some very rough and often chilly conditions, yet tend to manage their clientele just fine - certainly you haven't heard of very many dive accidents in the Galapagos, have you?
Actually, you can just get off the boat when they're still in the central islands. It wouldn't be such a big deal for the boat to let incompetent divers off at Puerto Ayora before they head up to Wolf/Darwin. But why would one diver place the "group" in danger? On many of my dives in the Galapagos, I had no idea where the DM was, I was just keeping the tail end of the "group" in view. If the DM himself had a dive accident, I wouldn't have known about it until I was back on the surface.
Of course it's acceptable. Wildlife is impacted every time we dive. We alter sharks' behaviors, manta rays' behaviors, hunt lobster, spear fish, etc. If you can't handle that, don't dive. There's very little chance that the dinghy driver could have seen a whale shark that surfaced right under the boat in the typical conditions found at Darwin Island and there's practically no chance that the whale shark was run over deliberately or even negligently. First you accuse the DMs of being incompetent, then you accuse the dinghy driver of being incompetent, but why doesn't anyone just blame the OP and all the rest of the inexperienced posters that followed for being incompetent and naive? After all, the vast majority of experiences on the GA II are very positive.
What do you expect? Peter Hughes killed a host of divers when the Wave Dancer capsized, but rather than blame the captain and the dive operation, the divers were blamed for having a hurricane party. Today, Peter Hughes' fleet is alive and well and growing while those divers are still dead.
You think they're going to bother apologizing about one bad experience when Peter Hughes/Aggressor together has enough boats in the water that when collectively full on any one day probably outnumber the entire populace of Scubaboard? Get real. People keep shelling out thousands of dollars to take Aggressor and Peter Hughes boats around the world because they, for the most part, deliver great experiences. Occasionally there's a lemon, occasionally people die, but posts like the OP's that urge all Scubaboarders to boycott a certain boat affect Peter Hughes/Aggressor as much as a big swell or a single barnacle might affect one of their boats. They need not respond to the OP any more than you'd write a two page letter to a mosquito that bit you.
Misa
Guest
Bah, i`ll be on Alta on 26 June - 2 July. Afaik only 2 ladies will come on board and rest men. I would love to see a fight between a DM and a husband who`s wife got hit.
/joke.
Lots of things can happen on safari with or without intentions. Sometimes you have to close your eyes, sometimes you must keep it wide open. You must find the best way to cope with the people on boat.
Whats that thing with a guy not knocking and entering in a room? Were you doing nasty stuff alone? To solve this problem, you do your stuff there and then you go and pay a visit to that employee and remind him next time to knock on door...or why not, close the door?!?! Remember comunication with other people is the best way to let them know what do you want.
Regarding DM, his experince, his attitude, his action on land and underwater i wont comment because i`ll have to curse the mofo. But i would like to share with you what happened on a liveaboard 2 months ago in Red Sea.
During one night i woke up to use the toilet. It was water 3 cm high in the bathroom, 1 more cm and would have go inside the room. All the chargers, all the electronics were on the floor. Somehow i got lucky, to wake up at that hour, to notice the flooding, to save the electronics...i`ve considered myself lucky else i could have been...ruined. Called the mechanic who was awake and he fixed it as fast i could quickly use another bathroom.
We did 4 dives per day for few days in a raw and both DM were exausted. In one night we were preparing for night dive and the DMs were creppy about the idea of going into water...again. We`ve told them to go sleep and get ready for 6AM dive :cool2: and we`ll do a quick night dive. We came back 1h later, without any DM leading, just 6 of us. Who needs a DM when you have compass and reef on your left/right side?
Both DMs were afraid to go inside Salem Express because the number of casualties there. They were so scared that we had to tell them on boat that we will go inside Salem and if they want to follow ok, else we`ll meet on deck. Guess who was 1st that entered in Salem? DM!!! No more afraid of ghosts i think
Captain was afraid in day one to sail along the Red Sea after Salem to Big Brother. It was open sea and bad, bad weather. He said its a good idea to stay there until weather will chill. Even technical boat MV Tala (Red Sea Explorers) were parked there and were waiting for the sea to calm and sail in that direction. We had patience for 1h then we`ve paied a visit to DM and told him. We`ve payed for Brothers reef tomorrow morning, if no brothers tomorrow you take us to the shore, give money back and then we`ll pay for 1 day trip and thats it. In 15 mins the boat was sailing to Brothers. We arrived at Brother island and it was the only boat there for 1 day. The 2nd day, there were 6 boats there parked. We laughed, DM laughed and yes, the weather was bad, the waves were big, sometimes the sea was gone from my sight and after 2 seconds appear again...but we` ve managed the problem. We did everything by talking with the DM and forcing him to do it or go to shore Communication is the key for all the problems in the world and if you pay for services you are entitle to step forward in that moment and demand things to move.
If you dont have a leader on this trips is better to choose one. One experienced diver with communications skills can help a lot.
Bringing inexperience divers to Galapagos with the thought in mind that DM will take care of it its childish. Its the same with a visit you pay to your cousin`s house in different city and you ask him to show you the city. If you dont pay attention and a car hits you, its cousin`s fault?
We even had in October a woman who dove with just 1 leg/1fin. She had a major problem and all the group was there glad to help. Screw the whales, pinguins, or whatever its in the water, you have a human life near you that needs help and if you get distracted it takes few seconds for a bad thing to happen.
Things can happen when you live aboard so why not come prepared for worst and enjoy the trip?
Just want to say HI/BYE and remind you people that communicating with other people at the right moment can improve human relations for the future.
/Patiently awaiting Galapagos trip
/joke.
Lots of things can happen on safari with or without intentions. Sometimes you have to close your eyes, sometimes you must keep it wide open. You must find the best way to cope with the people on boat.
Whats that thing with a guy not knocking and entering in a room? Were you doing nasty stuff alone? To solve this problem, you do your stuff there and then you go and pay a visit to that employee and remind him next time to knock on door...or why not, close the door?!?! Remember comunication with other people is the best way to let them know what do you want.
Regarding DM, his experince, his attitude, his action on land and underwater i wont comment because i`ll have to curse the mofo. But i would like to share with you what happened on a liveaboard 2 months ago in Red Sea.
During one night i woke up to use the toilet. It was water 3 cm high in the bathroom, 1 more cm and would have go inside the room. All the chargers, all the electronics were on the floor. Somehow i got lucky, to wake up at that hour, to notice the flooding, to save the electronics...i`ve considered myself lucky else i could have been...ruined. Called the mechanic who was awake and he fixed it as fast i could quickly use another bathroom.
We did 4 dives per day for few days in a raw and both DM were exausted. In one night we were preparing for night dive and the DMs were creppy about the idea of going into water...again. We`ve told them to go sleep and get ready for 6AM dive :cool2: and we`ll do a quick night dive. We came back 1h later, without any DM leading, just 6 of us. Who needs a DM when you have compass and reef on your left/right side?
Both DMs were afraid to go inside Salem Express because the number of casualties there. They were so scared that we had to tell them on boat that we will go inside Salem and if they want to follow ok, else we`ll meet on deck. Guess who was 1st that entered in Salem? DM!!! No more afraid of ghosts i think
Captain was afraid in day one to sail along the Red Sea after Salem to Big Brother. It was open sea and bad, bad weather. He said its a good idea to stay there until weather will chill. Even technical boat MV Tala (Red Sea Explorers) were parked there and were waiting for the sea to calm and sail in that direction. We had patience for 1h then we`ve paied a visit to DM and told him. We`ve payed for Brothers reef tomorrow morning, if no brothers tomorrow you take us to the shore, give money back and then we`ll pay for 1 day trip and thats it. In 15 mins the boat was sailing to Brothers. We arrived at Brother island and it was the only boat there for 1 day. The 2nd day, there were 6 boats there parked. We laughed, DM laughed and yes, the weather was bad, the waves were big, sometimes the sea was gone from my sight and after 2 seconds appear again...but we` ve managed the problem. We did everything by talking with the DM and forcing him to do it or go to shore
Communication is the key for all the problems in the world and if you pay for services you are entitle to step forward in that moment and demand things to move.If you dont have a leader on this trips is better to choose one. One experienced diver with communications skills can help a lot.
Bringing inexperience divers to Galapagos with the thought in mind that DM will take care of it its childish. Its the same with a visit you pay to your cousin`s house in different city and you ask him to show you the city. If you dont pay attention and a car hits you, its cousin`s fault?
We even had in October a woman who dove with just 1 leg/1fin. She had a major problem and all the group was there glad to help. Screw the whales, pinguins, or whatever its in the water, you have a human life near you that needs help and if you get distracted it takes few seconds for a bad thing to happen.
Things can happen when you live aboard so why not come prepared for worst and enjoy the trip?
Just want to say HI/BYE and remind you people that communicating with other people at the right moment can improve human relations for the future.
/Patiently awaiting Galapagos trip
Actually I have been to different countries in the middle east, and I would never even expose my shoulders there. You have to be respectful of others. And if in YOUR culture you are used to hitting on women indiscriminately, then you must be respectful of others when they say NO.
I like how you just plucked one sentence out of my post to make me look like the bad guy here. Nice try.
It wasn't a "try" it was your sentence. Nice try.
The overly flirtatious attitude displayed by many men, especially those in Latin America, might be viewed by you and other close-minded compatriots as "hitting on", but in light of cultural differences was probably innocuous. Regardless, as a big girl, the issue was hers to deal with, not yours. I wonder how much she tipped.
Yeah, it was my sentence, but you took it out of context.
His behavior was inappropriate, if you were a female you would feel differently. At one point he told her to leave her boyfriend and move to Ecuador. He stalked her on the boat, deliberately cornering her when she was alone. You were not there. She confided in us because she was scared and felt unsafe. And she still tipped, because one person should not ruin it for the entire crew.
I bet your name is Wayne, with the way you are defending them!
His behavior was inappropriate, if you were a female you would feel differently. At one point he told her to leave her boyfriend and move to Ecuador. He stalked her on the boat, deliberately cornering her when she was alone. You were not there. She confided in us because she was scared and felt unsafe. And she still tipped, because one person should not ruin it for the entire crew.
I bet your name is Wayne, with the way you are defending them!
She felt unsafe, confided in you, and you didn't do anything about it? Sheesh, maybe it's your guilt feelings that provoked your vitriolic report.
I've never had a DM offer to marry me if I left my SO, but I've heard that kind of bantering before in all parts of the world. Yeah, so he said "leave your man, come to Ecuador and marry me" and he stalked her a bit on board (obviously not to her cabin, or you would have said that). Big deal. The solo women travelers that I know would have dispatched the bastard with a few quick comments since they're used to much worse. Since she came to you for help, she obviously wasn't that self-sufficient, but that doesn't mean you had to be completely impotent in the matter and then complain for her.
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