Agency with similar standards to the old YMCA program

[lowviz]

... I don't want to start a hater session, but I am trying to get a general idea of what agencies have similar values.

Suggestions?

Suggestions? Yep. I first took OW with a PADI instructor who had a very high-level day job in research. He took students as he saw fit. I'd put him up against anybody. Re-took OW with NAUI (Tim O'Leary) just to make sure I didn't miss anything. I did, he fixed it. He also taught me that there is a lot more I still missed. Took a great SEI rescue course with Jim Lapenta. I'm still missing stuff, just ask him.

It's on you, pal.

Nothing to do with agency. If you can't find a good instructor, your search algorithm isn't working.

 

[MB]

Two or three things stand out in these suggestions. Yes SEI was formed when YMCA went kaput; yes you might find a thorough instructor teaching for any agency; saying it doesn't matter which agency you select is a common saying but not completely accurate; there are agencies who are known for short courses, simplified "manuals", and in-and-out certifications. (I guess that was more than 2 or 3 things so I'll stop.)

You are less likely to find the type of instructor you are searching for by searching the local dive stores. In South Florida, we have tons of stores, and all work hard to sell you courses and equipment. Not all have instructors capable of customizing their courses because the stores encourage fast completion, not thorough training. For the advanced class, many instructors are nearly honest in telling you that they don't actually teach much - they accompany divers on their dives who experience new things. Ask potential instructors how much classroom time they plan in an advanced class. Ask about pool time. Ask how many dives they offer. You'll be surprised, and likely disappointed. But there are independents in our area who take training more seriously than marketing.

 

[boulderjohn]

There is something you might not understand about the AOW course. A quick look at its history might help you understand its nature and purpose.

Back in the 1960s, the first real certifying agency, Los Angeles County, noticed that a huge percentage of divers were leaving the sport after a relatively little time. They wanted to find a way to keep people interested enough to keep diving. They came up with the advanced program. It was designed to improve diver skills, but mostly its purpose was to expose divers to different kinds of diving experiences in the hope that divers would find an experience that would pique their interest and keep them diving. NAUI followed suit for the same reason, and then PADI did the same. Not long after that, PADI changed the name of its program to Adventures in Diving to make its purpose more clear, but it kept the name of the certification the same for the sake of consistency.

The important thing is to understand that the name of the program is deceiving. The primary purpose never was to make you an advanced diver in the true sense of the word. The primary purpose always was to expose you to different kinds of diving. Yes, your skills should improve as you do it, and yes, the degree to which that happens depends very, very much on the individual instructor you choose. Some will do only what the course calls for. Others will take the opportunity of being with you for those dives to give you much, much more than the course curriculum dictates.

If you want to become a truly advanced diver, it will take a lot more than this class to do it.

 

[flspy]

Two or three things stand out in these suggestions. Yes SEI was formed when YMCA went kaput; yes you might find a thorough instructor teaching for any agency; saying it doesn't matter which agency you select is a common saying but not completely accurate; there are agencies who are known for short courses, simplified "manuals", and in-and-out certifications. (I guess that was more than 2 or 3 things so I'll stop.)

You are less likely to find the type of instructor you are searching for by searching the local dive stores. In South Florida, we have tons of stores, and all work hard to sell you courses and equipment. Not all have instructors capable of customizing their courses because the stores encourage fast completion, not thorough training. For the advanced class, many instructors are nearly honest in telling you that they don't actually teach much - they accompany divers on their dives who experience new things. Ask potential instructors how much classroom time they plan in an advanced class. Ask about pool time. Ask how many dives they offer. You'll be surprised, and likely disappointed. But there are independents in our area who take training more seriously than marketing.

I think MB is really getting my point more because of living in South Florida. It's a lot of "go take this class online, and we will do a bunch of dives." We have a lot of dive shops, and a majority of them are on the fast track to get you buying equipment and out the door.
As far as the "it's all up to me" comments- no it isn't. I could give two fig leaves about getting the AOW. I have been diving since 1981, so I have experienced everything that would qualify me for the advanced diver status, diving with some of the best rec divers in the area.

The problem is now the local dive boats are starting to ask for an AOW certification card on more and more dives, likely because of the certification mills out there. Partly because they are trying to cover their own collective backsides from a lawsuit from under-qualified divers, and partly because they are often in cahoots with dive store owners. If it's deeper than 75' most will not take you if you don't have an AOW rating or higher.

If anyone wants to recommend a specific outfit here in South Florida, I would be glad to hear it. Send me a private message if you don't want to get "flamed."

 

[abyss_scuba]

Can we stop hating on dive shops! Yes dive shop sell gear, just like every other retail establishment is set up to sell milk, shoes, gas, whatever. I have a student who is coming back to redo dives he failed, dive shops have no interest in pushing bad students out the door. That is bad for the student, the dive shop and the industry. Btw no instructor, shop affiliated or independent is going to turn anyone into an "advanced" diver in 5 dives. At my shop if you meet the requirements set by PADI or NAUI you get the card. It is up to the student to take advantage of my reduced rental program to come with us every time we dive to redo those dives and skills until they feel they "own" them. I would be no better of an instructor just because I close my shop and call myself an independent. Look for quality training where ever you find it, independent, shop or a good mentor.

 

[MB]

No hating here, or in the other replies I've read. Only a recognition that many instructors are under multiple obligations other than providing instruction that leads to deep learning. Even independent instructors will take the fast and easy (or the quick and dirty) route. That's why it is important to interview potential instructors to see if they will tell you how they will approach a class.

I agree with you abyss - a poor instructor is a poor instructor regardless of whether s/he works for a store or is an independent. And a good instructor is a solid find, regardless of where he or she works!

 

[drrich2]

YMCA is no longer active in certification, but I would like to take coursework with the same dedication.

Your goal is admirable, but maybe you're aiming at the wrong target. What about getting your AOW, then pursing GUE Fundamentals or something similar, with a very reputable instructor?

From what you've said about your prior experience, you already have the capability (and probably then some) that the AOW is intended to impart. Therefore, expecting an extra thorough one to substantially advance you, while possible, may be asking a course to do something it was not designed to do (because you're beyond the level of student it was designed for).

I'm not saying what you want is not possible. I'm saying maybe there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Richard.